Reverse Gripes

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Two names occur to me spontaneously: Boromir and Théodred.

Boromir's character development and his death scene made him much more interesting and gave him more depth than the book did. His nobility and repentance in death is more vivid in the movie.

Théodred's death is mentioned only in passing in the book - I had to search for it when I was wondering what happened to Théoden's son, and the reference wasn't easy to find. In the movie, the tragedy of it is shown and the relationship of Éowyn and Éomer to their cousin and uncle is given depth that is missing in the book.

[ninja91]

I think the battles of the movies brought more excitement than in the books. I mean, in the books, the battles were captivating, dont get me wrong. But in visual effects, and in sheer thrills, the movie battles were better.

[Boromir88]

Boromir's character development and his death scene made him much more interesting and gave him more depth than the book did. His nobility and repentance in death is more vivid in the movie.~Esty

I thought that until TTT EE where Denethor sends Boromir out as a secret agent to go bring the ring back to his poppy. Boromir's character in FOTR was absolutely brilliant, he was done so sympathetically and was still one of the closest portrayed characters (though in the books he's more childish), but then TTT EE rolls around and my heart is shattered when he is sent out as an agent.

I've always felt the only thing Jackson improved on the books, and this is actually a rather minor minor change, but I like it. Is in the books Gandalf is given the line (telling Grima about Eowyn) "Too long have you haunted her steps, too long have you punished her." In the movies Jackson gives this line to Eomer and I think it works better. Hearing it as a threat from Eowyn's brother who should know more, then just some old random wizard that pops in on occasion.

[Texadan]

I liked seeing the Nazgul coming into the Prancing Pony and Barliman hiding under the counter. Even though the editing was deliberately deceptive, the idea of the Nazgul's voicing their rage on finding empty beds seems more realistic than the book's somewhat casual discovery of the attempted murder the following morning.

[mormegil]

I'm not sure how much I agree but I know that many would agree that editing out the Scouring of the Shire scene was a good thing.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I thought that until TTT EE where Denethor sends Boromir out as a secret agent to go bring the ring back to his poppy. Boromir's character in FOTR was absolutely brilliant, he was done so sympathetically and was still one of the closest portrayed characters (though in the books he's more childish), but then TTT EE rolls around and my heart is shattered when he is sent out as an agent.

I disagree. Having just watched LotR2-TTT-Seq16, I noticed that Boromir, if he's an agent at all, is a reluctant one at best. He openly disagrees with his father the Steward, yet obeys his will, just like Faramir does. Boromir states that his place is defending Gondor, not attending some meeting of Elrond. And are we to believe that Elrond wouldn't know that Denethor was sending an agent? You can see that Denethor's mind was already poisoned, and this rot will have him sending both of his children to death (though luckily Faramir escapes the multiple attempts on his life).

Anyway, I like the Boromir of the movies much more than the brash muscleman portrayed in the books whose sole purpose seems in being a foil for the rest of the FotR. PJ's Boromir is a troubled man, wanting to do the right and honorable thing, but struggling with the mess that his father placed in his head. You might think that he could easily disobey his father's command (assuming that the Ring is playing no part whatsoever in the struggle/temptation), but if you look in your own life, you might find it hard at times to cut against the grain laid out by family, whether parents or kin. Plus, Boromir's been told that the Ring is Gondor's only salvation, and though the hundreds or thousands of people's lives that may be at stake could be on his mind, we also know that his "little brother," whom he loves, could be one of the first to feel Sauron's bite. Just how far woud you go to save your brother?

And Sean Bean plays him so well.

[Boromir88]

I can understand your argument alatar, but I think a lot of people (or 2 that I know of ) see this and think that Boromir went to the Council and the reason he joined the Fellowship was because he needed to bring the ring back to pops. He may have been reluctant, struggling within himself (which I think can be supported from the books), but to me and my niece, we felt like it showed Boromir simply joined the Fellowship so he could get his chance at taking the Ring from Frodo. Not because he wanted to do an honorable deed and help Frodo along the way, but he was just waiting for a chance to try and take the Ring from Frodo.

Now all through FOTR I did not see this, I am more sympathetic to Jackson's Boromir than Tolkien's and I think Jackson does a very good job of staying close to Boromir's character. But just that one part in TTT EE it goes back and makes Boromir show, prior motivation before even getting to the Council, that he wanted to bring the Ring back to his father.

I love the bit of TTT EE where it shows the brotherly relationship between Boromir and Faramir, I think that is also great for Jackson to show that. It's just that one scene where Denethor sends Boromir out to bring him the Ring that gets me irked.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I can understand your argument alatar, but I think a lot of people (or 2 that I know of ) see this and think that Boromir went to the Council and the reason he joined the Fellowship was because he needed to bring the ring back to pops.

I agree. Boromir does need to bring the Ring back to Gondor; first, to please Lord Tomato-Eater, then, as Boromir falls into despair, for his own and the world's salvation.

He may have been reluctant, struggling within himself (which I think can be supported from the books), but to me and my niece, we felt like it showed Boromir simply joined the Fellowship so he could get his chance at taking the Ring from Frodo. Not because he wanted to do an honorable deed and help Frodo along the way, but he was just waiting for a chance to try and take the Ring from Frodo.

Yes, he was sent to get the Ring, or prevent it from falling into the hands of the pointy-eared or long-bearded, but his words to Frodo, at the Council, show that at that moment he saw it as his duty to support the quest. "If this is indeed the will of the Council, then Gondor will see it done." Sure, later he goes back to trying to get hold of the Ring, but for a moment there, he was the Boromir who we see in TTT with Faramir.

And really, he had the most knowledge of the enemy, and so was the 'realist' of the group. Taking the Ring to Mordor was folly, and you can't fault Boromir for hoping for a better plan.

Now all through FOTR I did not see this, I am more sympathetic to Jackson's Boromir than Tolkien's and I think Jackson does a very good job of staying close to Boromir's character. But just that one part in TTT EE it goes back and makes Boromir show, prior motivation before even getting to the Council, that he wanted to bring the Ring back to his father.

"Wanted" isn't the word that I would use. He was ordered to go and fetch the Ring for Daddy and his Lord. And if he didn't, his entire world, the men that he fought with, drank with, his kin and seemingly the only people who at that time still fought the Dark Lord would fail.

Try gainsaying that if you're the Steward's son.

It was imperative that the Ring get to Gondor, as his father thinks that in the right hands it would be a weapon of great power against the enemy, which, in truth, it would. No evidence exists, apart from words of wizards and white witches to say otherwise. Isildur did not become evil, as far as we know, and lost the Ring through misfortune. Gollum, not a man, was evil before he took the Ring. My point is that how does Boromir know that the Council is correct when it states that a human claiming the Ring would become like the Dark Lord, or would turn evil? Shortly after leaving Rivendell, Gandalf (recently a jailbird) wants to travel through the Fords of Isen (did he leave something at Orthanc?), then blunders over Caradhras, then falls in Moria, and he was the purported expert concerning the Ring. Saruman, ringless and of Gandalf's type, turns to evil. Elrond is passive. What's a warrior supposed to think?

I love the bit of TTT EE where it shows the brotherly relationship between Boromir and Faramir, I think that is also great for Jackson to show that. It's just that one scene where Denethor sends Boromir out to bring him the Ring that gets me irked.

Can't think of, off hand, any scene or scenes that irked me....

[ArathorofBarahir]

I think that what PJ did the best, were the battle scenes. Yes, they were great in the books, but to actually see them on screen was absolutely spine tingling! AMAZING! I'm going to agree with all of you on Boromir, I think that the way that Sean Bean portrayed him was absolutely amazing and made him seem like such an honorable and courageous man, even though he had his faults. I also think that PJ did a great job of showing the interaction between Boromir and Faramir in the TTT EE.

[suncrafter]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I can understand your argument alatar, but I think a lot of people (or 2 that I know of ) see this and think that Boromir went to the Council and the reason he joined the Fellowship was because he needed to bring the ring back to pops. He may have been reluctant, struggling within himself (which I think can be supported from the books), but to me and my niece, we felt like it showed Boromir simply joined the Fellowship so he could get his chance at taking the Ring from Frodo. Not because he wanted to do an honorable deed and help Frodo along the way, but he was just waiting for a chance to try and take the Ring from Frodo.

Wow! I had not thought of that - but it makes sense.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I agree with others that, in FOTR, at least, Boromir was a major improvement. Reading the books, I just didn't feel much sympathy for him. To my thirteen-year-old mind, he was evil because he tried to take the ring from Frodo. Obviously, I dismissed him way too easily. It was evident in the movie that he wasn't corrupt himself, but had been controlled by the Ring...and then turned around and became the hero. The film really helped me to see him for who he was: just a guy trying to do the right thing. The time spent on developing his character in the movie, while not much more happened than in the book, really brought him into focus for me...

Regardless of what else happened in the TTTEE, I loved the scene between Faramir and Boromir. We don't see them interact at all in the books, unless you count Faramir coming upon Boromir's funeral boat. It was great to see their relationship as brothers come in onscreen.

And in general, I think especially on the first read-through, LOTR is a little overwhelming: so many characters all at once. It's a lot to take in. Upon multiple readings, we gain a good sense of each character...but I liked that in the movie, each character gets his or her turn in the spotlight, at least to some extent. All the various relationships get their share of screentime, and I'm not talking about just the romance. We see great friendships and families as well. Sometimes the movie gives a better sense of them than the book does, especially the relationships between siblings like Eowyn and Eomer (or, as I mentioned before, Faramir and Boromir).

In the book, it's obvious, of course, that they cared for each other...but reading a couple fleeting sentences in the expanse of the book is different from actually seeing the relationships in the spotlight onscreen.

[FeRaL sHaDoW]

Originally Posted by ninja91

I think the battles of the movies brought more excitement than in the books. I mean, in the books, the battles were captivating, dont get me wrong. But in visual effects, and in sheer thrills, the movie battles were better.

yea i loved seeing the nazgul fall off his fell beast when the fell beats and eagles fight.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

Boromir's character development and his death scene made him much more interesting and gave him more depth than the book did. His nobility and repentance in death is more vivid in the movie.

I agree. In the book, Boromir has to be read partly from between the lines. I for one, didn't like him at all when LotR was read aloud to me when I was six. I was maybe 11 or 12 when I started to like him and now he's one of my favourites. The movies on the other hand provide a more human/good Boromir with such simple gestures as Boromir laying his hand on Gimli's shoulder at Balin's tomb and with Sean Bean's brilliant work.

[Mithalwen]

I think visually, it would have been hard to improve on the films..... the sets, and the costumes were excellent (apart from perhaps the slightly froufrou armour sported by Haldir and co! and the Rohirrim's blankety cloaks) and where they deviated from the books (eg Legolas's pair of knives) I liked the rationale of using an asian style of fighting to suggest an ancient and sophisticated culture independent of the more familiar ( to a westerner!!) western style weapons and fighting. The Shire, Bree,Rivendell and Minas Tirith were as imagined.

Lorien well what we saw of it was fine but I would have loved to see a mallorn properly but maybe that was just too impossible to create. Nevertheless, not being into fightscenes I would have rather seen more Lorien and less cave troll ...sorry that was a minigripe.

I think using Alan Lee and John Howard was the key. They are such genuine fans of the books and their vision of middle earth was familiar from the book illustrations.

[Sir Kohran]

In the books, I was always a bit perplexed as to why the Fellowship spent weeks in one place (such as Rivendell) doing little or nothing of use, when their mission was supposed to be urgent, secretive and vital to Middle-Earth's future. Basically, if they can afford to spend weeks resting and enjoying themselves, where's all the risk? And the fact that no enemies catch up with them when they're staying in one place for so long seemed rather unrealistic. The books felt rather sluggish here.

In the films, the timeline was tightened up and more a lot more direct (like Gandalf's journey to Minas Tirith and his quicker return to the Shire). The Fellowship's almost always moving, and there's a great sense of urgency. This is also down to all the 'hints' that we get of being hunted (the shadows in Bag End that could be Nazgul, the scene with the first Uruk Hai being created in Isengard, the foreshading of Gollum, etc.) that really build up the tension.