Dueling Wizards Werewolf Suggestion Thread

[Diamond18]

Well, about the GW getting to scry on Night One. I see no reason why s/he should not, after all, the EW already has an easier time of it and not letting the GW scry would be unfair. I was a bit confused at first why you said that in the future it would be a better idea not to let the GW scry Night One. Is it because this creates the opportunity for the GW to discover the EW right off? I think that's remedied easily enough by changing the ruling that the GW/EW find out each others' identities by scrying/cursing the same person. Just maintain the annonymity, unless one of them choses the other one. There is the possibility still that one wizard (or both) will chose the other wizard and find out that way -- but if they are so smart and fortunate as to pick the other wizard out from the whole village on Night One, more power to them. *shrug*

So to sum that ramble up: I would say, keep it so that both the GW and EW get to make picks on Night One, but do not reveal their identities to them if they pick the same person.

[mormegil]

I would consider posing a posting limit on day one. Over 200 posts on the first day was absurd and I had no chance to read through it all. I felt very detached at the start of the game due to this. I would hate making a hard and fast rule about it but it was just too many post to read in the short time I had.

[Firefoot]

Morm, I don't really think there's much way around it. In a game that starts with 30 people thereabouts, 200 posts is actually less than 10 posts per person (about 6-7), which really is not unreasonable at all; it's probably closer to average. The problem is there are just so many people, and I admit I had difficulties with that as well. But I think that in a game so big you just have to accept that it's going to be like that.

[Loki]

I am of the opinion that the night one events should be done as thusly:

GW prepares a list of people to scry (Possibly three or four people, as these are common numbers...). Good mod randomly picks one of these as a given gifted.

Much like the GW, the EW prepares a list of wolves, and the evil mod randomly chooses wolves from this list.

This is done so that neither wizard finds out who the other is on night one. This is done under the premise that the wizards, gifted and wolves had existed prior to Night One, and they simply take action on this Night.

Alternate situation:

Good Wizard picks gifted, then EW prepares his(her) possible list of wolves, whom are randomly selected from said list.





The hunter, also, must choose their kill-- they do not automatically kill any wolves that attack them.

I am also of the opinion that the GW should automatically select a seer, but neither of them take any action on Night One. However, these are all my personal choices. The EW has too many other benefits.

Also, this game should almost exclusively be played with a large number of players. Else, the EW won't have a chance. Large being over 10.

[littlemanpoet]

GW Scry on Night One

My rationale for this is that the GW & EW should not find each other on the first night. Possible solutions have been provided for that:

Originally Posted by Diamond

I think that's remedied easily enough by changing the ruling that the GW/EW find out each others' identities by scrying/cursing the same person.

That ruling is in place because it seemed to be the nature of magical power such that the two wizards would sense, and be able to identify each other, in such a case. So it's about trying to be realistic instead of arbitrary and artificial. Not that I have anything against other mods' choices for arbitrary rulings; in and of themselves, arbitrary rulings (that is, mod-initiated & not worrying about 'realism') are not a bad thing; I just don't like to use them.

Originally Posted by Loki

GW prepares a list of people to scry (Possibly three or four people, as these are common numbers...). Good mod randomly picks one of these as a given gifted.

Much like the GW, the EW prepares a list of wolves, and the evil mod randomly chooses wolves from this list.

This is done so that neither wizard finds out who the other is on night one. This is done under the premise that the wizards, gifted and wolves had existed prior to Night One, and they simply take action on this Night.

This is feasible and not overly artificial or abitrary. Worth using, I think.

Also, I think that it is not right for the evil wizard to be down to 2 werewolves before Day One even begins. That's not fair either. Loki's plan could be used to prevent that too.

Number of Posts per Day

I built that problem into the game on purpose. It wasn't hard. Again, it's like real life. On single villager can be in more than one place in the village at a time, and can't possibly keep track of every conversation that's going on in the village, although listening to other villagers' reports can give any other villager a sense of what's been going on, but then they're necessarily depending on the other villagers' perceived veracity. I like that. And there were a number of villagers who provided helpful summaries under the guise of analyses. Very much like things would run in a real village. So I don't mind the huge number of posts in a day. I like it, and support it. It's part of the game. A new "difficulty level" challenge for you accomplished blokes.

Hunter's Powers

Originally Posted by Loki

The hunter, also, must choose their kill-- they do not automatically kill any wolves that attack them.

Any moderator who wished to run a dueling wizards game is free to abide by this. I won't. I don't like a weak hunter. That's why I made the choice I did. If there's some way to find a middle ground between the weak hunter I don't like, and the strong hunter I used in the last game, I'm interested.

Number of Players

Originally Posted by Loki

Also, this game should almost exclusively be played with a large number of players. Else, the EW won't have a chance. Large being over 10.

I absolutely agree. I would say no less than 16 players, and 20 or more is preferrable.

Lynching Tie

And now for a new possibility to increase what I call the "Tolkien Theme" aspect: if the top vote getters are tied, no lynch for the Day. You can see the implications pretty quickly. What do you think?

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

That ruling is in place because it seemed to be the nature of magical power such that the two wizards would sense, and be able to identify each other, in such a case. So it's about trying to be realistic instead of arbitrary and artificial. Not that I have anything against other mods' choices for arbitrary rulings; in and of themselves, arbitrary rulings (that is, mod-initiated & not worrying about 'realism') are not a bad thing; I just don't like to use them.

If it's the RP aspect you're worried about, I think such an event is easily explained. When the two "powers" collide each can surely sense that the other wizard is after the same person, but I don't necessarily see a reason why they should be able to see beyond the veil of wizardy to the "regular villager" behind the power. Especially since they are, technically, not focusing their own powers on each other but on the villager in question. Etc. Frankly, I think all such ideas about the nature of the wizards' powers are arbitrary to the mod, just like an author has the creative say over the nature of magic and how it works in their story. It's all in how you rationalize it to fit the game.

Loki's idea is also feasible, of course. Either way, it could work, and his is better for ensuring that the wizards don't pick each other night one. I am not that against the idea of them finding each other out in such a way, though. Like I said, if one wizard is smart enough to pick the other right off the bat, more power to him! Having a large village is the best defense against this, anyway, since the more people mucking about the better for the wizards to hide. Which is why I think it goes without saying that the village should be large. Plus, has there ever even been a -10 player game on the 'Downs?

[Diamond18]

And now for a new possibility to increase what I call the "Tolkien Theme" aspect: if the top vote getters are tied, no lynch for the Day. You can see the implications pretty quickly. What do you think?

I'm a little puzzled as to why this is more Tolkien themed?

It's an interesting idea, though I fail to see why the villagers should let anything stop them from a little bloodshed. From an RP aspect. It would have to be explained rathr well to really make much sense in the narration. But, laying that aside and looking at it purely from the more strategic aspect of the game, it's very interesting and would make for some intriguing desicions on both sides.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

[Hunter's Powers
Any moderator who wished to run a dueling wizards game is free to abide by this. I won't. I don't like a weak hunter. That's why I made the choice I did. If there's some way to find a middle ground between the weak hunter I don't like, and the strong hunter I used in the last game, I'm interested.

We thought about the Hunter's role today with Lommy as we were figuring out our WWJ-game, and decided to try this kind of version of it.

The logical hunter works as follows:
- she can change her pick whenever she wants to
- if she has picked a wolf and is attacked at night she will take her pick with her
- if she has picked someone who has voted her she will take her pick with her when lynched
- so the logical hunter does not take innocents/gifteds with her when killed by the wolves nor take someone who hasn't voted her with her when lynched

The third point should make playing the Hunter - and the whole role - more interesting, if not openly stronger. As the hunter sees she is to be lynched, she will probably have time enough to change her target. That way she can either try to save innocent villagers voting for her or target her suspicion that has "bandwaggoned" her. At least this makes it more nerve-wrecking for the hunter...

In a game, where hunter and ranger are allowed to PM together, that kind of rule might make the Hunter a formidable player.