Tol-in-Gaurhoth XXI: Dueling Wizards Werewolf

[Firefoot]

I thought that's what Gurthang was saying...

Which is what I was saying in the first place... hence my confusion. But moving on.

In the mean time, I have split you all roughly into four groups, the first two of which sort of overlap: people with less than 10 posts, people who I'd like to have a look at since looking at their name doesn't say anything to me, whether innocence or guilt, people that I'd just like to have another look at, and people who I'm going to ignore for now (whether because they've already received so much attention or I think them innocent etc.). Some of the people in the first group who might also fit into a different group have that number by their name...:

I
Alcarillo - III
Zali - II
Eonwe
Kitanna - II
Nilp - II
Oddwen - II
Sleepy

II
Caran
Glirdan
Kath
Jenny

III
Lalaith
Lommy
Roa
Spawn

IV
Diamond
Eomer
Gurthang
Fea
Morm
Valier

The II's are the ones I'm really worried about - the kind who just slip under the radar and no one really notices them, whether to think them innocent or guilty. The III's are the other group I'm wary of because of general suspicions against them, but I'm not ready to say any of them are wolves/EW.

[JennyHallu]

Wow...never been accused of flying under the radar before...I'm actually kind of flattered. But I am also innocent, just been extremely busy doing housecleaning (read: new job/training at said job/weird form of insomnia accompanied by nightmares/husband's softball league/life/parents 1000 miles away moving out of house I grew up in/mentally preparing to go get stuck with lots of needles tomorrow...can I just go quietly insane and get it over with? Sounds less stressful)

I am going to have to vote within three to four hours...and for some reason have an urge to look at Kitanna (no particular reason, just...worried). I'll do that analysis, if there are no objections, Firefoot...

P.S. Gurthang, you're the greatest! Lovely dramatic reveal!


EDIT: X'd with Gurthang

[JennyHallu]

I KNEW Loki was telling the truth. Couldn't believe how many doubted it...that was just far too stupid a thing to claim if you couldn't back it up.

[Roa_Aoife]

Far be it from me to argue with your plan, oh Good One, but that narrows the field considerably to protect two known innocents in a pool of.. what is it now, 22? We may see something you do not, and so find a wolf. While I'd like to trust your judgement, I'd hate to see the village limited in such a fashion.

Okay, now to the important stuff. First, Loki was telling the truth. He was my scry the first night as well as one of the Evil Wizard's scries.

In the words of Loki, I told you so.

[Diamond18]

Well, this is good timing. I was just about to respond to a quote of Gurthang's from yesterday that made me all annoyed. I still might, since you never scried me and I hold a grudge for that sort of thing. (The longer I remain an Ordo, the grumpier I get.)

Strange, I was under the impression that Gurthang was one of those people who supposedly didn't have time to be a Wizard. Didn't we have to delay the game so he could play? So all this time, I'm ruling Gurthang out of my "possible wizard" mullings, thinking, "Oh, Gurthang wouldn't have signed up for Wizardry, not enough time." And this even after I spoke against taking that into too much consideration. *bangs head against desk*

Oh yeah, and if you use your GW status to lynch me, like you were speaking about doing yesterDay, ha and HA on you.

Okay, I''m through Day 2, and the few things that have jumped out at me from amongst the swarm... are...

Spawn seems to be rather responsible for getting Celuien lynched, even though she didn't actually vote for her. She made a post here which Eomer described as devastating and that Roa later cited as reason to lynch Celuien. It doesn't sit well with me, speaking out against a person to the extent that others lynch her, yet opting for a different votee yourself. (Spawn voted Azaelia, by the way.) Of course, as I found Zali suspicious myself, I can't exactly fault the vote. Maybe what's bothering me more isn't necessarily Spawn's post/vote, but Eomer and Roa's responses to it.

Roa's comment here bugs me:

I had completely missed the points about Celuien! I may have to reconsider voting for Firefoot.

How does one miss what was being said about Celuien?

Other things bothering my right now -- Lalaith. She seems... fishy. Can't put my finger on it, but... there's something. Firefoot worries me as well, for her eagerness to agree with Morm about Eomer. Zali still worries me. The overall population trusts Morm too much. Sleepy and Eonwe each posted only once, and such a low profile is worrisome.

Person bothering me most right now, though, is Kitanna. Not just for yesterday, but for Day 1 as well. I can't remember who she voted for on Day 2, I'll have to go find that. But yesterDay her vote for Celuien bothered me, and it still bothers me. Initially she said she was inclined to think Celuien and I innocent, then made this comment:

...So you're not going with the theory that you seemed so confident of before because if you're innocent, your runner up must be innocent too? Suddenly I regret my defense of you and Celuien.

Frankly, I still don't get why a comment by me should make her regret defending both me AND Celuien. Celuien is in no way responsible for my comments.

Then this:

Well I've given some thought to all that has happened and I came down to Eomer and Celuien as my top two suspects. Eomer for his cunning ability to double bluff and for Celuien's continued defense of phantom accusations of herself. In the end I simply flipped a coin to decide who to vote for.

++ Celuien

Though I defended her and Diamond to begin with when they brought themselves to everyone's attention, when Celuien continued it and regarded anyone looking at her as a "pointless arguement" I began to suspect her even more.

First of all, what phantom accusations? What about Spawn's "devastating" post? The idea that Celuien wasn't being accused by anyone yesterday... huh? And besides, as all the posts she made yesterDay convinced me I shouldn't be voting for her, I'm puzzled that they had the oppoosite effect on Kitanna. (And others, ahem.)

I'd like to here more from Caran about her vote. YesterDay she apologized for not having enough time to give a detailed reason, and toDay she just brushes it off as "you win some, you lose some." Well, I thought yesterDay's loss of Celuien was entirely unecessary and it still ticks me off, so I find it odd that some toDay are going, "Oh well, who knew!"

[Gurthang]

Originally Posted by Diamond18

Oh yeah, and if you use your GW status to lynch me, like you were speaking about doing yesterDay, ha and HA on you.

If you are lynched toDay, I would be happy, but it will not be because I told everyone to vote for you. It's far beyond me to assume I'm so completely right about someone to make everyone else vote how I want. If I've learned anything from playing *ahem* reading my WW lorebook, it's that.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Gurthang

If you are lynched toDay, I would be happy, but it will not be because I told everyone to vote for you.

Even if I'm innocent? Thanks a lot.

But as I had the same opinion about Loki, guess I can't complain too loudly. But anyway, as to the quote I was talking about:

Originally Posted by The Good Wizard

Now, Diamond is something else. I think I may vote for her. One of the main reasons is that she seems to shift her view to fit what people say to her. Specifically I would point to #25 where she defends Nogrod against Loki, then when Celuien asks her something she turns to Nogrod with suspicion and says she saw what she expected from Loki. In the end she ended up voting for Loki. Also, she talks a lot, which is obvious and not necessarily bad, but a lot of it is role-playing and not as much constructive to the task at hand. I'm not too keen on that.

One, I did not defend Nogrod in the game sense. I defended him against what I thought was a too personal and non-game relevant attitude in Loki's responses. You may recall that I called Nogrod's initial post "not strictly logical but containing no malice outside the game dynamics." That was my big Nogrod defense. And I didn't shift my view to fit what Celuien said -- she reminded me of something I had wanted to say but go sidetracked from saying because of Loki's behavior. I voted for Nogrod the next day because he was striking me as odd the entire game thus far.

Also, your last comment is just insulting, so whatever. I seem to have fallen into defending myself personally instead of defending the wolfishness/non woflishness of my actions, so again, whatever.

[Roa_Aoife]

Roa's comment here bugs me:

Quote:
I had completely missed the points about Celuien! I may have to reconsider voting for Firefoot.

How does one miss what was being said about Celuien?

I can answer this quite simply: when one is on a personal trip involving one's fiance meeting one's family, and one must drive back and forth through several states, and arrive home just in time for work, which starts at 3 PM est and ends at 6 PM est , thereby giving one only a short time in which to read through all the posts of the day (which is, one must admit, a fair number) one tends to miss a few things.

I'm still concerned about Firefoot. I didn't find her answers yesterday to be wholly settling. I'll be back as soon as I can with a more thorough analysis.

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Diamond18

First of all, what phantom accusations?

Phantom accusations as in non existant accusations. I was not referring to the phantom.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Phantom accusations as in non existant accusations. I was not referring to the phantom.

I know.



So, you didn't answer my question. By the point in the Day that you actually voted, and made this comment, Celuien had garnered suspicion and votes.

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Diamond18

I know.



So, you didn't answer my question. By the point in the Day that you actually voted, and made this comment, Celuien had garnered suspicion and votes.

Ok, just wanted to make sure. But I wasn't talking about that, I was talking about Celuien's first post when no one had really said anything against her. I know when I voted she had gained some suspicions, but I was looking at her earlier posts from the day for the most part.

[Gurthang]

[rant]

Frick. I am so mad.

Do you guys think I'm evil? Or stupid? Maybe you think I'm stupid.

You'd think I hadn't just come out and said I was the Good Wizard. By the way you guys are disagreeing with me, it makes me feel like I'm a moron, and I'm sick of it.

I come out, trying to provide a little order to this chaotic game, and almost all I get are complaints. Excuse me for wanting to use the phantom's plan, but I just happen to think he's one of the most intelligent Barrowdowners. Excuse me for trying my best to help this village out! Excuse me for volunteering myself for this bloody job in the first place!

[/rant]

There will be a list. This is it:

Azaelia
Eomer
Valier
Roa_Aoife

Please pick who you find the most suspicious from among these four.

[sarcasm]
Look familiar? It should. It's the top four after Celuien from yesterdays voting. I happen to not know anything about any of them.

What's that you say? Roa and Alcarillo tied? Oh, so they did. Well, I flipped a coin, and Roa is there for toDay.

[/sarcasm]

Okay, some of you say that I shouldn't pick who's on the list since you don't think any one person should have that much power. Or something like that. Well, I agree. That's why I picked the people who everybody thought was suspicious yesterday. Ironically, yesterday 55% of those who voted picked one of these four. and remember that out of that remaining 45%, more than half voted for Celuien.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Do not disagree with the GW, okay?

He may get innocents lynched (statistically, he will), but he's the most powerful good guy in this village right now. He's here to help us.

Now, keep your freaking self-conservation and bloody suspicion list aside and just follow him.

He has the bigger picture, remember?

[Gurthang]

Thank you Nilp. Or should I say Dad.

Also, thank you Caran for not disagreeing with me.

Now, I need to catch up on questions.

Originally Posted by Firefoot

Gurthang, isn't it a little counteractive to tell us that you're going to choose the same seer? The EW knows who that is. S/he has the power to just keep ungifting or set the wolves on him/her. I would probably choose someone different.

Yes and no. I was hoping that the Evil Wizard would actually believe me, and then I would do something else. Basically, if I did scry Nilp, then EW would have the wolves kill him. If I don't scry Nilp, EW does and turns Nilp to EVIL. So, I say I'll do one thing, then do another. That way, if it actually goes like I hoped, I don't scry Nilp, but the wolves still kill him, and I don't lose my scry. Although I do lose my Dad.

Oh, and don't worry about blowing my bluff or anything like that. Now the EW still has to guess at what I'm going to do; because now I might scry Nilp... or I might not.

Originally Posted by Diamond18

Well, I suppose it's a good plan for not revealing your Gifteds. The thing that worries me is that if you pick four people I don't have any strong suspicion of and don't think should be voted for, I'm still forced to vote for them or be considered as disobedient and evil. And the idea of having to vote for someone I more or less find innocent, lest I be castigated and lynched, rankles me.

So I suppose it depends on your list. I understand why you can't take nominees, so I guess there's really nothing I can say about who I would consider worthy lynch candidates, besides what thoughts I've already given. I feel like I've come under suspicion just because you dislike my style and don't find my posts to be particularly worthy contributions, and as I have not intended them as space wasting filler, it bothers me. But I suppose I'll just hush up now, as it doesn't matter.

Well, simply pick the candidate from the list that is the most suspicious to you.

As far as me suspecting you for style, no. I kinda like you're (what I would call) carefree/relaxed type posting. As far as suspecting you for less analysis in said posts, yes. But I've suspected because of that before.

Originally Posted by Roa

Certainly if you find someone guilty, we should all vote for that person, but by narrowing things down so greatly, isn't it quite likely that a wolf, or even the EW, could slip past you? As I said, we may find things that you do not.

Not necessarily. It would rid us of a wolf, but it tells us nothing as far as voting is concerned. Although, right now voting doesn't tell us hardly anything anyway. So let's cross that hurdle when we come to it.

Originally Posted by Roa

Chill out. No one accused you of anything. We don't like your plan, but that doesn't mean we think you're stupid. We just don't like the idea of having you choose who we can and cannot look at. It's not because we doubt you or your abilities, it's because we like to think things out for ourselves. As I said, it becomes more of You vs the baddies, than Us vs. the baddies, and that is something I wish to avoid. So relax. Just because we don't to accept you as our dictator doesn't me we don't like you.

I'll let the phantom answer this one.

Originally Posted by the phantom, (bolding mine)

Now, that isn't to say everyone can't give their suspicions. Naturally, the GW and Seer will read what everyone has to say and take all opinions into consideration for the nightly scry/dream, but being allowed to state opinions and refusing the leadership of the GW are two completely different things.

The GW and his gifteds are our salvation. Once he is revealed, it will be in our best interest not to argue with him or his lists, because he knows more than a common villager. Should we give our opinions? Certainly! He will use them in helping him decide which individuals to scry and move onto the lynch list, but we shouldn't demand that he change his list or anything. Disobeying him might lead to the accidental discovery of gifteds.

[JennyHallu]

Thankfully Kitanna has made only 10 posts, which makes this much easier considering how many other things I am attempting to do at the same time.

Her first post is rather long; but this is my highlight:

This caught my eye when I first read it and then I see Nogrod also feels this comment needs to be watched. Nogrod also mentioned Loki's "wolfish" defense of himself ofone little comment made. I'm not really concerned about that it's his first game and Day one. It's not all that surprising he's a bit jumpy. But the comment above has me worried. What exactly is Loki trying to tell us? Trying to taunt us?

Kitanna came out day 1 strongly against Loki and for Nogrod. So did a lot of people, but I have to admit suspicion of those who didn't even entertain the notion that Loki might be telling the truth.

Her second post is a vote for Loki, saying that she chose between Nogrod, Loki, and Lommy because they led in the votes--followed by an apology for bandwaggoning.

Post 3: An agreement of Celuien and Diamond, then a defense (sort of) of Alcarillo and myself. Really not much of a defense: She doesn't think we're likely to be wolves, but admits we might be...

Gah...I've read the posts, but I don't have time right now to go through all of them. Sorry to those looking for me to do so.

Kitanna looks like a likely wolf candidate to me, and she has been very non-commital from the get-go. Sorry, that's as much as I have time for. Now a quick read-through and a vote.

[JennyHallu]

I'm going to vote

++Valier

For the same reasons as yesterday and because I have no more time to look closer at the others.

[Caranlondien]

Originally Posted by Nilp

Caran, if we add the Hunter, that's 18 unknown villagers left.

Yes! So my argument is not in vain, because Gurthang's choices still give us better odds!

And, on a different note...

[rant]

I don't see how anything Gurthang has said takes the whole fun out of the game. He's the GW, and he's proposed a plan. It's not that he's not letting us do things. He's suggested that we follow the plan, but it's up to each of us to decide if we will follow that plan. If you choose not to, then you can try to get people to see things from your point of view, and try to explain why it doesn't make you evil!

It's all still part of the game. More importantly, it is a game!

In fact, Roa and Diamond's reactions to this, if anything, have made me less suspicious of them. I wouldn't think a baddie would respond in such a way...

[/rant]