Well, Gandalf, it's nice to see you again, but... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lalwendë · 05-06-2006, 02:13 PM

It makes me wonder if the use of 'death' was an afterthought for Tolkien. As we know, he was a perfectionist, and he might well not have published anything if it was not for the demands of his publishers, but just gone on rewriting and editing his work. It also makes me wonder if he was constructing the idea of Gandalf's 'rebirth' at a later stage, while in the drafting stage he did not mean that; or did he just word the phrase badly and so not get his meaning across?

I tend towards the former actually, as 'fire and flood' seem to be very appropriate for Moria - the flood of the watcher in the water (and no doubt floods in the depths of Moria) and the fire of the Balrog. The phrase fits the story well. I do not mean that 'death' does not, but I am suspicious that Tolkien did change his mind after the fact and chose to use a short word with a lot of meaning. I think my suspicion is borne out by what davem has quoted earlier from HoME.

05-06-2006, 02:13 PM	#13
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	It makes me wonder if the use of 'death' was an afterthought for Tolkien. As we know, he was a perfectionist, and he might well not have published anything if it was not for the demands of his publishers, but just gone on rewriting and editing his work. It also makes me wonder if he was constructing the idea of Gandalf's 'rebirth' at a later stage, while in the drafting stage he did not mean that; or did he just word the phrase badly and so not get his meaning across? I tend towards the former actually, as 'fire and flood' seem to be very appropriate for Moria - the flood of the watcher in the water (and no doubt floods in the depths of Moria) and the fire of the Balrog. The phrase fits the story well. I do not mean that 'death' does not, but I am suspicious that Tolkien did change his mind after the fact and chose to use a short word with a lot of meaning. I think my suspicion is borne out by what davem has quoted earlier from HoME. __________________ Gordon's alive!