LotR2-TTT-Seq11 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Sir Kohran · 05-01-2006, 03:57 AM

Yes...Gollum and Smeagol's 'conversation' was brilliant. It's a great mixture of humour, with their petty-looking squabbling, and also sadness and horror, as we see Gollum bullying Smeagol, and you get the idea of how mentally destroyed this creature is. And I always smile when he shouts "Smeagol is FREE!".

I thought Smeagol actually visually tearing a raw rabbit apart with his teeth was bit grotesque, but it keeps up Smeagol's image and leads to one of the few funny scenes in the films - I always used to annoy my friend's little sister with 'Stupid, fat Hobbit!"

I really like the appearance of the Oliphaunts, and the Men of Harad - very desert-like, similar to the invading African warriors in the old El Cid movie. I also liked the ambush - as you see the first arrows zip over the screen, you wonder if you're just imagining things, but then you see the garbed soldiers screaming and the falling slain tumbling down from the Oliphaunt towers. It's also neat to see Faramir for the first time - stringing his bow and shooting down a Haradrim rider. The kit for the Rangers is also good - all that brown and green would blend in well with the trees, as we see.

I don't understand why Smeagol sneaks off, though. There's no real reason given in the films - it's left as a bit of a mystery.

Whilst I know that Frodo and Sam didn't meet Faramir exactly like that in the books, I do think this way is more dramatic than them just running into him and a few other men in the trees.

I love how Faramir speaks Sam's thoughts from the book on the dead Haradrim soldier, and how he probably didn't want to be in battle far from his home. It's a great moment that reminds us that people on both sides suffer in war. In our age, where kids play wars on computers and video games for fun, I think it's a message that we'd all do well to remember.

Anyhow, a good chapter, with lots of stuff from the books. Looking forward to the next chapter, alatar.

Elladan and Elrohir · 05-01-2006, 04:45 PM

Definitely an enjoyable sequence. The famed Smeag/Gol argument is without a doubt the best single piece of acting in the films, one of the best of all time.

Sam sees the light as far as Gollum goes, yet he still resorts to pettiness to try to gain his master's favor ("What's to ruin? There's hardly any meat on 'em."). I don't like that part, but I like that this scene survived with modifications into the film.

Showing a thoughtful Faramir at his introduction is wonderful, and goes a long way toward making us sympathize with him (something you can't really do in the theatrical version). The flashback scene with Denethor and Boromir, obviously, will endear him to everybody who's not already fed up with his unextended portrayal.

Macalaure · 05-02-2006, 12:47 PM

There's one thing I don't like about the Gollum-becomes-Sméagol-again scene. To me, one of the chief reasons for the scariness of Gollum is that most times, you don't know who you're dealing with. The line between the stinker and the slinker is very blurry and he can change from one moment to the other. But from this scene on, Gollum/Sméagol is no longer a mystery in the movie and his actions are suddenly quite predictable, sadly.
Nevertheless, the scene itself is brilliant, not least because of Andy Serkis.

I also like it when Faramir says Sam's line about the dead man from Harad. It's like the authors say: it really carries a lot more weight when spoken by a soldier.

alatar · 05-02-2006, 02:44 PM

By the by, I think that I missed Faramir's words there at the end of DVD #1 due to a scratch. It would explain why I wasn't sure what y'all are talking about

.

Lathriel · 05-02-2006, 07:54 PM

I like it that Sam's thoughts are given to Faramir. This is not only because I am a faramir fan but also because these are thoughts that must often go through a soldier's mind and I am sure Tolkien must have wondered this too when he was fighting in WW1.
I was dissapointed by Faramir in the theatrical version and I am glad that the EE explaines Faramir's choices. Luckily in the ROTK EE he is given back the lines of not picking up the ring even if he saw it lying beside the highway. So, to truly appreciate the movie faramir you have to watch the EE.

05-01-2006, 04:45 PM	#2
Elladan and Elrohir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Halls of Mandos Posts: 332	Definitely an enjoyable sequence. The famed Smeag/Gol argument is without a doubt the best single piece of acting in the films, one of the best of all time. Sam sees the light as far as Gollum goes, yet he still resorts to pettiness to try to gain his master's favor ("What's to ruin? There's hardly any meat on 'em."). I don't like that part, but I like that this scene survived with modifications into the film. Showing a thoughtful Faramir at his introduction is wonderful, and goes a long way toward making us sympathize with him (something you can't really do in the theatrical version). The flashback scene with Denethor and Boromir, obviously, will endear him to everybody who's not already fed up with his unextended portrayal. __________________ "If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING

05-02-2006, 02:44 PM	#4
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	By the by, I think that I missed Faramir's words there at the end of DVD #1 due to a scratch. It would explain why I wasn't sure what y'all are talking about . __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

05-02-2006, 07:54 PM	#5
Lathriel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wandering through Middle-Earth (Sadly in Alberta and not ME) Posts: 612	I like it that Sam's thoughts are given to Faramir. This is not only because I am a faramir fan but also because these are thoughts that must often go through a soldier's mind and I am sure Tolkien must have wondered this too when he was fighting in WW1. I was dissapointed by Faramir in the theatrical version and I am glad that the EE explaines Faramir's choices. Luckily in the ROTK EE he is given back the lines of not picking up the ring even if he saw it lying beside the highway. So, to truly appreciate the movie faramir you have to watch the EE. __________________ Back again

05-01-2006, 03:57 AM	#1
Sir Kohran Wight Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: England, UK Posts: 178	Yes...Gollum and Smeagol's 'conversation' was brilliant. It's a great mixture of humour, with their petty-looking squabbling, and also sadness and horror, as we see Gollum bullying Smeagol, and you get the idea of how mentally destroyed this creature is. And I always smile when he shouts "Smeagol is FREE!". I thought Smeagol actually visually tearing a raw rabbit apart with his teeth was bit grotesque, but it keeps up Smeagol's image and leads to one of the few funny scenes in the films - I always used to annoy my friend's little sister with 'Stupid, fat Hobbit!" I really like the appearance of the Oliphaunts, and the Men of Harad - very desert-like, similar to the invading African warriors in the old El Cid movie. I also liked the ambush - as you see the first arrows zip over the screen, you wonder if you're just imagining things, but then you see the garbed soldiers screaming and the falling slain tumbling down from the Oliphaunt towers. It's also neat to see Faramir for the first time - stringing his bow and shooting down a Haradrim rider. The kit for the Rangers is also good - all that brown and green would blend in well with the trees, as we see. I don't understand why Smeagol sneaks off, though. There's no real reason given in the films - it's left as a bit of a mystery. Whilst I know that Frodo and Sam didn't meet Faramir exactly like that in the books, I do think this way is more dramatic than them just running into him and a few other men in the trees. I love how Faramir speaks Sam's thoughts from the book on the dead Haradrim soldier, and how he probably didn't want to be in battle far from his home. It's a great moment that reminds us that people on both sides suffer in war. In our age, where kids play wars on computers and video games for fun, I think it's a message that we'd all do well to remember. Anyhow, a good chapter, with lots of stuff from the books. Looking forward to the next chapter, alatar. __________________ 'Dangerous!' cried Gandalf. 'And so am I, very dangerous: more dangerous than anything you will ever meet, unless you are brought alive before the seat of the Dark Lord.' Last edited by Sir Kohran; 05-13-2006 at 07:10 AM.

05-02-2006, 12:47 PM	#3
Macalaure Fading Fëanorion Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: into the flood again Posts: 2,911	There's one thing I don't like about the Gollum-becomes-Sméagol-again scene. To me, one of the chief reasons for the scariness of Gollum is that most times, you don't know who you're dealing with. The line between the stinker and the slinker is very blurry and he can change from one moment to the other. But from this scene on, Gollum/Sméagol is no longer a mystery in the movie and his actions are suddenly quite predictable, sadly. Nevertheless, the scene itself is brilliant, not least because of Andy Serkis. I also like it when Faramir says Sam's line about the dead man from Harad. It's like the authors say: it really carries a lot more weight when spoken by a soldier.