Tol-in-Gaurhoth XX: Wereorc I: The elves cannot hide themselves much longer.

[Celuien]

Oh dear, poor Farael. I shall miss him. I enjoyed mixing hydrochloric acid with zinc over an open fire in his lab. 'Twas quite noisy, but the lights were brilliantly bright.

Originally Posted by Nogrod, post #2

How do we make the best use of these shaman-dreams, going to random people? My basic instinct would say, we just come forwards with them, one by one, as we have them. The orcs possibly won't get very far with lying about them (one "found out" -lie - when the dream goes to an orc that tries to save a fellow - would get another orc lynched immediately?) - and the chance of them having a dream is about 1/4.

Not a bad plan, except for one thing. If we reveal dreams as we have them, then the Orcs can pick off any known innocents, one-by-one, rendering the dreams useless. What the village needs to do is hold back the identities of innocents until we have enough names collected to make the revealations worth while.

Actually, though, it might not be a bad idea for each of us to find some way of leaving obscure hints so that if someone receives a dream and dies before being able to reveal it, there's still some way of picking up on what was known.

And I sort of have to go pretty soon, though I'll try to come back in several hours...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Celuien

Not a bad plan, except for one thing. If we reveal dreams as we have them, then the Orcs can pick off any known innocents, one-by-one, rendering the dreams useless.

Well that was just the thing I thought about: and this way we win... because they are made to react, rather than act. We will then be always one dream ahead - and at some place, the wolves will be dreamed of too!

Actually, though, it might not be a bad idea for each of us to find some way of leaving obscure hints so that if someone receives a dream and dies before being able to reveal it, there's still some way of picking up on what was known.

I think this is a good working plan too. It is just a bit vague: we won't be able to trust, that the talk of some innocent dead was a hint or just a hunch, if they are obscure enough...

But we will have to think about these both: this day, and the next night.

PS. I do not mean we should use all our day's discussions on these matters - maybe we just all think about these ourselves, maybe commenting on the worst flaws in mine or Celuien's ideas - maybe introducing good new ideas too? Then we could open a real discussion tomorrow?

[Celuien]

*back for a few minutes*

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Well that was just the thing I thought about: and this way we win... because they are made to react, rather than act. We will then be always one dream ahead - and at some place, the wolves will be dreamed of too!

Right, but only one dream ahead, making it a hard to amass enough of a proven innocents to unknowns ratio to guide voting effectively.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I think this is a good working plan too. It is just a bit vague: we won't be able to trust, that the talk of some innocent dead was a hint or just a hunch, if they are obscure enough...

Delibrately vague, for now anyway. The Orcsies are watching too, after all...

*goes away again*

[Caranlondien]

Alas and alack! Our poor dear alchemist, dead! My harp shall do naught but weep for Farael until his death has been avenged.

Now, as to killing these nasty orcs... I think Celuien makes a good point about the proposal of having the dreamers come forward immediately with those they dreamed about:

Originally Posted by Celuien

Right, but only one dream ahead, making it a hard to amass enough of a proven innocents to unknowns ratio to guide voting effectively.

I think discretion is in order, and it's a bad idea to make generalizations about how we should act - makes it easier for the wereorcs if we tell them our intentions.

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Caranlondien

I think discretion is in order, and it's a bad idea to make generalizations about how we should act - makes it easier for the wereorcs if we tell them our intentions.

Caran (may I call you that?) makes a good point. I think in the end it will be up to whoever has the dream. Afterall, it's their potential sacrifice.

We ought to move on and discuss strategies for Day 1. Now I know everyone hates Day 1, nothing to go on, random babbling, etc, etc, etc, but Therianthropes have been caught on Day 1 and we have the ability to do so again. I personally don't like random voting- I like to vote for whoever is the most suspicious to me on any given day, no matter how marginal that suspicion is. If, however, you get to the end of today and are completely lost, by all means vote randomly. It's better to make a random vote than not vote at all. You may even get lucky. It's happened before.

Basically, let's get some discussion going so we can avoid the need for random votes.

[Diamond18]

I'm not sure what to talk about past the Shaman strategy, and so far I think I agree with Celuien and Caran both that discretion, and personal judgement, should be used when deciding whether to reveal when one has been given the dream.

Other than that, I'll be working on my silmarils. I.E., waiting for more of the village to post.

[JennyHallu]

Farael...he who taught me the joys of Bunsen burners...shall be sorely missed. But he shall not be missed for very long. Why, you ask?

BECAUSE THE WORLD IS GOING TO END AND WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!

HORRIBLY!!!

*wipes sweat off brow*
*adjusts Sign of Impending Doom*

Anywho...

I've been spending the past several days thinking about the Shaman dreams, and I think I also stand with Celuien. Let's not make things quite so obvious to the Orksies. Now...who among us might be guilty?

Dancing Spawn...you look far too innocent. You too, Roa. I mean really, they're so blazingly white innocent all the time that one of them has got to be evil incarnate.

And Sleepy. The whole idea of a sentient barrel of apples creeps me out. I mean really...you're walking down the street and you hear something, turn around, and all there is is a barrel of apples.

Diamond also worries me. Threat of certain annihilation, and she's playing with sparkly rocks? Doesn't she know the world is ending? I've told her and told her...

Substance maybe later.

(The Jen is fairly sure she is going insane due to scheduling. Hopefully her brain will kick back in. Don't count on it at least until she's had sleep.)

[Celuien]

Might as well get started on the running analysis…
Posted so far:
Nogrod – laments Farael, thinks dreams should be posted as received, says Orcs won’t get far by lying about dreams.
Glirdan – expresses confusion over wereORCS instead of werewolves, vows to avenge Farael’s death. Agrees with me on Nogrod’s plan, adds that we shouldn’t trust anyone too readily since Orcs can lie about dreams. Says to leave subtle hints about dreams unless someone is in danger of dying.
Caranlondien – laments Farael, says I have a point about revealing dreams too quickly. Calls for discretion.
Roa_Aoife – laments Farael, thinks the dreams available to us are interesting since the Shaman is protected, allowing villagers to reveal dreams. Points out that dreams can be misleading since we don’t know which villagers dreamed or what they dreamed if they die without leaving a hint. Agrees with Caran about the need for discretion. Doesn’t like random voting, calls for more discussion so we don’t need to vote randomly.
Diamond18 – laments Farael. Agrees with me that we shouldn’t rush to reveal dreams. Agrees with Caran about needing discretion on the part of dream receivers about revealing dreams. Awaiting more discussion.

Waiting to hear from:
JennyHallu
Grendelien
Findëasëa
Zali
Dancing Spawn
Kitanna
Naria
Sleepy
Legolas in spandex

Well. Let’s see if I can stir things up. If I activate my Random Illuminator™ and turn it on those who haven’t arrived yet, it reveals that Grendelien, Sleepy and Spawn are clearly up to something together. You see, Grendelien whittles the barrels that make up Sleepy the apple barrel (what’s with an Elf turning into a barrel, anyway?), and Spawn sells the apples. Such a bizarre business plan is highly suspicious.

EDIT: crossed with Jenny while typing very, very slowly. She should, of course, be off the non-posters list now.

[Roa_Aoife]

Horrid, filthy things, those orcs. Abominations to Elf and Eru. Poor Farael, having to deal with them. I wish he could have written more on that coat.

This dreaming is interesting. It protects the shaman by making it less necessary to come forward, and helps the village begin to act as a team. (One thing the wolves/orcs/cats/ducks/whatever have always had over the villagers.) It gives us a distinct advantage in that if a villager dreams of a wereorc they can come forward and sacrifice themselves, with out us losing the source of the dreams. Interesting, indeed.

The down side is that it can be misleading. We'll know who the shaman is after they die, but we can't necessarily look at their posts to see what they knew. We won't know which villagers dreamed or not when they die unless they tell us before they die, which they may not have the chance to do if they are killed in the night. The whole thing could turn against us rather quickly.

EDIT: Cross-posted with Nogrod

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

The down side is that it can be misleading. We'll know who the shaman is after they die, but we can't necessarily look at their posts to see what they knew.

That's a good point! I hadn't thought of that yet.

Looks intersting, anyhow.
(And now finally to sleep: I'll be back after some rest)

[Diamond18]

Eepers jeepers, these are meticulous orcs. Farael, dyed to death! *grabs various tools and thingies used in jewel smithing and assumes a defensive stance* I fear for my life. I fear for my cat's life. I fear for the life of my precious jewels. Nasty, thieving orcs will no doubt covet my latest experiment; light absorbing silmarils! Yes! You simply put them out on your windowsill on a sunny day and bring them in at night, whisper a few strangely Spanish sounding Elven words over them, and voila, they cast off the light they absorbed during the day! I've almost got to the point where they don't blow up when you invoke their power. Once I've got that little problem ironed out, I'll be working on various color schemes for the jewels: Excellent Emerald, Groovy Green, Bodacious Blue, Rad Red, etc. Mood lighting. It will be revolutionary.

Those orcs will not have them, I say! Death to all wereorcs!

(What, you were expecting something useful? Oh well. Okay. I agree with Celuien that we don't want to rush to reveal our dreams if we are so lucky to receive them from the Shaman. Keep the information secret as long as possible but leave hints if it seems necessary. I am all in agreement with this plan. More later.)

[Glirdan]

Wereorcs?? WEREORCS!? What rubbish is this!? I don't hunt wereORCS!! I hunt WEREWOLVES!! What is going on in this village?? Farael!! Please send me a sign as to who these foul beasts are!! Please let me aid our Protector!! I will avenge your death! Even if it is against a species that I don't really have any expertise in!!

How do we make the best use of these shaman-dreams, going to random people? My basic instinct would say, we just come forwards with them, one by one, as we have them. The orcs possibly won't get very far with lying about them (one "found out" -lie - when the dream goes to an orc that tries to save a fellow - would get another orc lynched immediately?) - and the chance of them having a dream is about 1/4.(Nogrod)

I rather like Celuien's reponse to this:

Not a bad plan, except for one thing. If we reveal dreams as we have them, then the Orcs can pick off any known innocents, one-by-one, rendering the dreams useless. What the village needs to do is hold back the identities of innocents until we have enough names collected to make the revealations worth while.

Actually, though, it might not be a bad idea for each of us to find some way of leaving obscure hints so that if someone receives a dream and dies before being able to reveal it, there's still some way of picking up on what was known.

I quite agree with you on this aspect. The one thing I really don't like about your plan Nogrod is that if the Wolves...I mean Orcs, could use the name they recieve and say that that person is an Orc. So I don't think we should really be trusting anyone. It would be very dangerous for us. But that's just my opinion.

The down side is that it can be misleading. We'll know who the shaman is after they die, but we can't necessarily look at their posts to see what they knew. We won't know which villagers dreamed or not when they die unless they tell us before they die, which they may not have the chance to do if they are killed in the night. The whole thing could turn against us rather quickly.(Roa)

This is another good point. I was acutally thinking of that myself. There are quite a few flaws with this idea (not that it isn't a good one) that I really think we should let it be. I also believe that when a villager dreams of someone, they should leave subtle hints throughout the day and if it's quite apparent that someone is about to die, then they should come out (if they have the chance) and say if they've had a dream.

I shall be back later.