Relative Powers - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

obloquy · 04-05-2006, 07:12 PM

When one of you finds the true source of the quote provided from the '77 Silmarillion within HoMe (where we can be assured of its authenticity) and compares the date of that material with the date on The Shibboleth of Feanor, I'd be willing to bet the latter is the later.

Luthien was an Elda by nature. There is no two ways about it, since, having been born an Incarnate, her nature could not have been Maia. She was infused with the blood of an incarnate Maia, yes, but that does not change that she was an Elda. If you want to disqualify her because of her advantage, that's one thing. But to say she's not even an elf is retarded.

As for "fallen" and "unfallen" Feanor, there's no indication that he was any less powerful in his end than he was in his beginning. Elves did not diminish through physical exertion as clothed/incarnate ealar did. The quote supplied by the phantom about Feanor's might was from within the narrative and at a time when Luthien did not yet exist. It therefore does not conflict with Tolkien's later (presumably) note wherein he, as the creator of the mythos, unequivocally states the top three greatest Eldar, side-by-side, and which of the three is the greatest of all. Tolkien is not coyly toying with his reader since this piece was evidently not part of anything he ever expected to be published. Yes, sometimes he messes around and throws things out there only to jerk them back (Gandalf = Manwe?), but in this case his statement bears finality and is never contradicted.

I'm done.

04-05-2006, 07:12 PM	#11
obloquy Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: WA Posts: 941	When one of you finds the true source of the quote provided from the '77 Silmarillion within HoMe (where we can be assured of its authenticity) and compares the date of that material with the date on The Shibboleth of Feanor, I'd be willing to bet the latter is the later. Luthien was an Elda by nature. There is no two ways about it, since, having been born an Incarnate, her nature could not have been Maia. She was infused with the blood of an incarnate Maia, yes, but that does not change that she was an Elda. If you want to disqualify her because of her advantage, that's one thing. But to say she's not even an elf is retarded. As for "fallen" and "unfallen" Feanor, there's no indication that he was any less powerful in his end than he was in his beginning. Elves did not diminish through physical exertion as clothed/incarnate ealar did. The quote supplied by the phantom about Feanor's might was from within the narrative and at a time when Luthien did not yet exist. It therefore does not conflict with Tolkien's later (presumably) note wherein he, as the creator of the mythos, unequivocally states the top three greatest Eldar, side-by-side, and which of the three is the greatest of all. Tolkien is not coyly toying with his reader since this piece was evidently not part of anything he ever expected to be published. Yes, sometimes he messes around and throws things out there only to jerk them back (Gandalf = Manwe?), but in this case his statement bears finality and is never contradicted. I'm done.