Survivor: The Second Age

[Boromir88]

Oh one more thing....

Celuien in defense of Cirdan who had the forsight to see Gandalf as the only istari to stay true to his task is why he entrusted Gandalf with the Ring. The istari were sent to ME to help the Free peoples combat Sauron, Cirdan had the vision to see this and new his ring to light up people's hearts would come of much use to Gandalf. Without Cirdan and his ring would Gandalf be able to spark up the hearts of people? I don't think so.

Though I do agree that Elrond should stay as far as right now, I ask you to reconsider your Cirdan vote.

Elros is the guy everyone should be going after. He shied away from his Elven-heritage and formed the cursed kingdom of Numenor. He chose mortality because he couldn't face/handle living forever like his brother and his other kindred. He's the coward, not Cirdan.

[The Saucepan Man]

Hey, let's leave the Numenoreans alone, shall we? They have suffered enough so far and their tribe is already heavily depleted. The Second Age was, in many ways, the Age of Numenor, so it would seem only fair that at least one fo them should make the final.

Originally Posted by Celuien

Further proof of his complete disinterest in aiding the Free Folk of Middle-earth is demonstrated in his giving his ring away to Gandalf. Obviously he was looking for someone else to take over the job he was entrusted with when given his ring.

While I mainly agree with your analysis of Cirdan, who is little better than Elrond in his craven desire not to get involved, at least Cirdan did give his Ring to someone who was prepared to use it for the greater good. Unlike Elrond, who simply used it selfishly to preserve his own little idyll.

[Boromir88]

Hey, let's leave the Numenoreans alone, shall we? They have suffered enough so far and their tribe is already heavily depleted. The Second Age was, in many ways, the Age of Numenor, so it would seem only fair that at least one fo them should make the final.

None of them deserve to be in the final. Ok, it was their age, but the Numenoreans are no good, greedy, elvish wannabees. That's why there was afterall...the downfall of Numenor. Their actions caused their own defeats and their greed for longer life after they were already lived 5 times longer actually cost them. I can't even argue that the Numenoreans (like Sauron and the Witch-King) provide good viewing ratings, they're just wannabees.

Though you are making sense with Elrond I will say. Perhaps Earendil's entire family just needs wiped out. I mean let's think about it:

Elrond, along with Gandalf was the main planner for The Fellowship and the destruction of the Ring. But other than that what does he do? Also, that's in the 3rd age. He's even so lazy he sends his sons to give messages, because he doesn't want to leave.

Arwen, though beautiful, just a snobby little princess that is only the symbol of authority. She's like the Queen of England, rich, a nice title, but absolute no authority at all.

Elladan and Elrohir are just Aragorn wannabees, tagging along with the other Dunedain.

Now I know the last 3 aren't contestants, but it just shows the worthlessness of Earendil's descendants. The whole line needs to be wiped out (meaning Elros and Elrond).

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

The whole line needs to be wiped out (meaning Elros and Elrond).

You have a point. I will honour a well-reasoned vote for Elrond with an equally well-reasoned vote for Elros (provided that I can think of anything he actually did) once Elrond has departed.

[Celuien]

It was Elrond's skill as a healer that saved Frodo from becoming a wraith. No Frodo, no Fellowship, Sauron wins, end of story. Elrond useless? Hardly.

As for Cirdan, I'll admit he had wisdom in dealing with Gandalf. Wisdom to pass on a task he wasn't up to. So I still think he's less deserving than Elrond.

Honestly, I might change my vote. My goal isn't to eliminate Cirdan as much as it is to save Elrond. But I agree that the Numenoreans have been hit too hard lately, so I won't be looking in their direction.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Celuien

It was Elrond's skill as a healer that saved Frodo from becoming a wraith.

Third Age, m'dear, and therefore inadmissible.

In any event, didn't Tolkien say somewhere that healing was primarily undertaken by the females of the Elven peoples? There we are. Irrefutable Tolkien-based proof that Elrond is, in fact, a cissy.

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Third Age, m'dear, and therefore inadmissible.

Bah. I refer to my earlier discussion of timeframes. Besides, leading the founding of Imladris should count for something.

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

In any event, didn't Tolkien say somewhere that healing was primarily undertaken by the females of the Elven peoples? There we are. Irrefutable Tolkien-based proof that Elrond is, in fact, a cissy.

Didn't he also say something about the hands of a King being the hands of a healer?

And are you implying, sir, that female-dominant skills are of lesser worth than those of males? For shame. That's no way to persuade me.

Fimbrethil is looking like a good alternative...

[Anguirel]

The ratings? Thank goodness you've remembered them, Saucie!

Why, when you were suggesting sending off the popular harp-player, romantic husband and peacemaker of the show, Elrond, foster-son, lest we forget, of the tormented celebrity former Survivor winner Maglor, I almost thought you must be neglecting the ratings...

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Celuien

And are you implying, sir, that female-dominant skills are of lesser worth than those of males? For shame. That's no way to persuade me.

That's not what I said at all. My own good wife belongs to the medical profession, and a noble profession it is too.

I was merely saying that in Middle-earth healing among Elvish communities tends to be a role undertaken by the females. As a healer, Elrond is therefore engaing in a primarily female role. Ergo, he is a cissy.

He is the Middle-earth equivalent of a male nurse.

(Disclaimer: These comments are made for game-purposes only. No offence to medical professionals, male female or otherwise, is intended and none should be taken.)

[Anguirel]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Arwen, though beautiful, just a snobby little princess that is only the symbol of authority. She's like the Queen of England, rich, a nice title, but absolute no authority at all.

I'm sure you don't mean to cast aspersions, but I'm fond of my sovereign and am rather riled by this. Certainly, I'd rather she had authority than the ludicrous men elected by the rabble...anyway, let's keep her out of it.

Incidentally, Arwen doesn't have a nice title. She most certainly isn't a princess.

One of the most interesting things about Elrond is that he isn't King of Rivendell, or even often Lord. He usually sticks to Master...a title on about Sam's level. This shows a good dose of humility and plenty of wisdom, which Cirdan, also titleless, displays as well.

Shall we contrast that with Sauron the Great, Lord of Tol-in-Gaurhoth, the Terrible One, The Eye, true King of Middle-earth, etc etc? By rewarding Sauron and punishing Elrond you are voting for insupportably large egos.

If we must chase the sterile grail of tribal equality, though, I'm willing to compromise and lessen the Other Speakers. They're rather dark horses...well, trees...wouldn't want any of them to win by stealth...

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Certainly, I'd rather she had authority than the ludicrous men elected by the rabble...anyway, let's keep her out of it.

That's the one thing that you have said so far that makes any sense, Ang.

By rewarding Sauron and punishing Elrond you are voting for insupportably large egos.

Actually the eviction of Elrond will strike a blow against insupportedly (sic) large egos, as it will rile the phantom.

[Boromir88]

I'm sure you don't mean to cast aspersions, but I'm fond of my sovereign and am rather riled by this. Certainly, I'd rather she had authority than the ludicrous men elected by the rabble...anyway, let's keep her out of it.

Of course I met nothing serious. Royalty had it's power back in the day, but now you have to admit the Royal line is basically a figure head that has real little power. Anway, how it connected to Arwen is she is the "Estel" or hope of her people, basically a figurehead with little power. The only way she tastes a bit of authority is when she marries the King of Gondor.

Which I must say is another strike against Elrond. What's the junk about him only letting Arwen marry the King of Gondor? What the King of Rohan or say a Lord of a distant land isn't good enough for him? What's this him setting restrictions on who his daughter can and can't marry, that's Shakesperean era .

You have a point. I will honour a well-reasoned vote for Elrond with an equally well-reasoned vote for Elros (provided that I can think of anything he actually did) once Elrond has departed.

Good enough for me. I have now been thorougly convinced:

++Elrond

[Anguirel]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Of course I met nothing serious. Royalty had it's power back in the day, but now you have to admit the Royal line is basically a figure head that has real little power.

Oh, I can admit that. But I'm not admitting that it shouldn't have...

Since you all seem to be Dark Lord cuddlers:

--SAURON, ++FIMBRETHIL

The true example here of an emasculating wife...heartlessly abandoning her faithful spouse, leaving him in spasms of grief which he's still pouring into song an Age later. What irresponsibility she shows to te continuation of her kind! And what a bad example she sets to the other Entwives!

She's far worse than Tar-Aldarion, but essentially guilty of the same sin...only she made it permanent.

Send her off!