Survivor: The Second Age

[the phantom]

Ang, there is something in your Elendil argument I don't agree with.

"Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world."

You think this Elendil quote was a display of arrogance. It wasn't- it was foresight. There's a big difference.

And then this-

The fact that we have more material on Galadriel is a sign that Celeborn was indeed a loving and appreciative husband.

Either that, or perhaps Celeborn took great pleasure in displaying his trophy-wife at every opportunity, where as Elendil had enough respect for his wife to allow her to live her life as she wished and didn't insist on showing her off. Did you think of that?

Now, that said, I do believe the Elendili tribe should be trimmed soon, so a vote for Elendil isn't the worst thing in the world, though I'd rather vote off Anarion than Elendil.

But the person I'd really like to take care of is Treebeard, so I will now respond to Eomer's defense of the stiff, inactive old bore.

'Hasty' and 'Takes too long' are both relative descriptions.

Yes, relative to me, and you should know by now that I care about how things relate to me far more than how they relate to anything else.

Considering how sweet and wonderful Treebeard was...
He's nice.

WHAT?!

Take your time reading the line below, Eomer. Let it sink in.

Treebeard....was...not....nice.

This is what Treebeard said to Merry and Pippin in the chapter entitled "Treebeard"-

But if I had seen you, before I heard your voices- I liked them: nice little voices; they reminded me of something I cannot remember- if I had seen you before I heard you, I should have just trodden on you, taking you for little Orcs, and found out my mistake afterwards.

The only reason Treebeard didn't squash Merry and Pippin immediately was that he thought their voices were cute. That doesn't sound very nice to me.

Treebeard needs to go.

And now, to respond briefly to Sauce.

He has not explained which votes from yesterday were discounted and which were not.

I explained though. Can't you infer from my explanation what probably happened?

I fail to see why votes for Elrond because of perceived character flaws (mormegil’s and Elu Ancalime’s, for example) should be discounted.

Oh, come on, you're just being stubborn. "Elrond is a sissy" is obviously not a legitimate argument. No where in Tolkien's books does Tolkien hint at Elrond being a sissy. On the contrary, Tolkien describes him as strong. If Formendacil accepted a vote that said "Elrond is a sissy", he would have to accept a vote for Sauron that said "Sauron is a messy eater".

When making a vote, you can't just claim personality flaws without a reason, particularly flaws that are completely absent from Tolkien's writings. That is extremely easy to understand, SPM, so don't even try and wiggle around and pretend that you don't get why morm and Elu's votes were likely not counted. I'm sure the two of them understand completely.

The people who voted for Oropher put their finger cleary on the fact that not much was written about Oropher. The people who called Elrond a sissy or unwise or whatever weren't putting their finger clearly on anything at all. If you don't understand this then you are conciously trying not to.

the phantom discounts TORE’s vote because it refers back to spawn’s reasoning. On that basis, the votes of Celuien and (particularly) lord of dor-lomin would also need to be discounted

Nope. False.

TORE did not quote Spawn's reasoning, nor did he attempt to put the reasoning into his own words. All he said was that he was leaning towards her reasoning.

Celuien and lord, on the other hand, both gave reasoning in their own words. That is an important difference. When you are at school, do teachers allow you to answer a question "I think the same thing as John does"? No, they expect you to give the answer in your own words, even if your reasoning is the same as John's.

That is the situation here. Don't even try and argue it. It mirrors what is considered an acceptable practice elsewhere, so rather than complain or fight it just live with it.

[Elu Ancalime]

Lommy........<sigh> (I like Elendil)

++Treebeard

He really didnt do anything, and besides, he could've prevented the attack on the Entwives. If the Ents checked up the Wives more regularly, maybe the Wives would have stayed West of the ANduin, and Sauron might have left them alone.

SpM, you do have a point about character flaws. This may invalidate my own vote for Elrond, but to an extemt you are right. It is Tolkien-based if one makes a vote based on an assumption from character. However....I regret to say I can not find any direct proof that Elrond is a sissy. That is my perception of him (in a Mirthful way) But then there would be exact specifications on what can and can not be assumed, if assumption is allowed. But then a character like Oropher would be gone, only because 'he never did anything.' So, putting it in that perspective, I would then theoretically totally support Elrond, and campaign against 'idles', but then if that was true, Formendacil, or any other Survivor Mod should not have put Idles in to maintain that.

Oh, come on, you're just being stubborn. "Elrond is a sissy" is obviously not a legitimate argument. No where in Tolkien's books does Tolkien hint at Elrond being a sissy. On the contrary, Tolkien describes him as strong. If Formendacil accepted a vote that said "Elrond is a sissy", he would have to accept a vote for Sauron that said "Sauron is a messy eater".

But see, assuming Formendacil is a government and not one person, a vote like that should be accepted regardless because most ballots anywhere dont have three lines after where you write why. If that was true, then the democratic world would have the best leaders. My dad once made a joke that he couldnt vote for Al Gore in '00, because:

"Joe Lieberman looks funny"

Now he didnt do that, but nobody cares about that, because in popular vote, the idea is that the people can vote for any candidate. Debates and speeches are for the people, so that they can think why they would consider this candidate. The reasoning is for the person, not the people. As a person, they have justification to vote for somebody and not have to tell anybody else who they voted for or why, because they wouldnt vote unless they had a reason, no matter how silly. Even the fact that most people only see one side of an issue, if they are completely ignorant to the fact, they are allowed to vote. That is an example that nobodys perfect.

Also, this was posted in Formendacil's opening post and other past Survivor Mod posts. Obviously this is Formen's game, but just a general idea of Survivor. Survivor Sillmarillion was a little bit different as it including reasoning on challenges, so i dont think its liable in this instance.

=Formy The person will be evicted from the game by the voting of YOU the readers

I assume this implies personal justification, which is eprsonal.

=Glirdan2) You have to come up with a funny excuse for you reason to vote that person out. It can be an inside joke or something that everyone will get. It doesn't matter as long as it's comedic.3) Lastly (and most importantly I might add), HAVE FUN!!!!!

This is a little critisism for Formen, but Boromir88 who created survivor on the Downs said this.

Please list votes like so ++Frodo, and it would be funner if you give an explanation as to why. By all means, this is Middle-earth Mirth, think of something totally whacky.

Since this is Mirth, I think the silly and absurd reasoning should be allowed to a healthy point. I really did not expect a bandwagon to start about how sissy somebody was. I expected a bandwagon about evicting Elrond.
________
Vt800

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by a phantom

Oh, come on, you're just being stubborn. "Elrond is a sissy" is obviously not a legitimate argument. No where in Tolkien's books does Tolkien hint at Elrond being a sissy.

Originally Posted by Formendacil

This is, don't forget, a Tolkien-based game. So, I would like to see, if possible, some reasoning, preferably Tolkien-based, no matter how illogical or distorted, to accompany your votes.

[Eonwe]

++Ohtar

If you think the Elindili need some thinning out, choose this guy. Once again, I don't know who he is. That should say it all.

Lommy, I am shocked into speachlessness. What makes you not an Elindil fan? Is there some hidden blemish to his character? Some moral deficiency?

As for this:

Originally Posted by Lalaith

WHY don't we know his wife's name? Kept barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen, was she, when the census taker came to call?

I have but one thing to say. For shame.

We don't the the man's wife's name because she never did anything important enough to be mentioned. That is her business. To have it used to tarnish Elindil's good name is entirely rediculous.

I am certainly in for it. Here in the first round, I am having to throw out portest votes, and the choices of those are even pretty slim...