Survivor: The Second Age

[the phantom]

Really now? You just know how to compliment a girl, don't you?

I try.

when just yesterday there was a bunch of people throwing their votes around because of the word 'camel'

You'll notice I never used that reasoning myself. I thought it was senseless, but seeing as they were voting a way that didn't bother me I didn't see the need to say anything. Got it?

And, wow, you actually looked up Vilya in the Encyclopedia of Arda? I honestly didn't think you had thought this thing through that much. I suppose I should give you some credit for that, though your information is wrong. According to the appendix in LOTR, Gil-galad "before he died gave his ring to Elrond". But Rivendell was founded in 1697, nearly 1,800 years before Gil-galad's death.

Also, Rivendell was founded only four years after the three Elven Rings were hidden, and we know Vilya was originally given to Gil-galad.

Not to mention the fact that Rivendell was founded while SAURON HAD HIS RING! During that time, the elves DIDN'T USE THEIR RINGS. So even if Elrond somehow had Vilya in his possesion during that time, he didn't use it.

So, no- Elrond did not use Vilya to found Rivendell, no matter what your precious encyclopedia may say.

I think you should be willing to change your vote just out of respect for the facts I've brought up. And if not for that reason, you should change your vote because it pains me to see someone so beautiful make such an ugly decision.

*hopes flattery will work*

[JennyHallu]

I think we should petition Arda for a fix. I need EoA! It is my lifesaver when I dig myself into holes in Books discussions!

And, Unique (like all the rest of us) Phantom, I think we should vote to irritate you just for proving it wrong!

--Horopher who did...um...nothing

++Elrond who listens to Monkey-Advice

[the phantom]

I think we should vote to irritate you just for proving it wrong!

So, it is your desire to irritate and vote against the person who has been trying to provide you with accurate information? How absurdly stupid.

You see, Jenny, this is exactly why I am the phantom. Everyone else is too inept to measure up.

++Elrond who listens to Monkey-Advice

Wow. That's really convincing. Especially when you realize that there was no monkey, and that Elrond really didn't take anyone's advice besides his own and Gandalf's. Elrond and Gandalf pretty much had already decided what to do and didn't really take the advice of the others. Instead, they convinced the others to side with their superior wisdom. Elrond was a leader.

[JennyHallu]

Elrond was a manipulator, who probably thought of himself as The Elf.

EDIT: And willful blindness is a powerful thing...those who meddle in it must be cautious.

[the phantom]

Completely wrong, Jenny. Elrond did not think of himself as "The Elf". In the books, his lack of self-praise and cockiness compared to other Lords and his readiness to admit when something was beyond his power is part of what makes him so unique.

[mormegil]

But the one point I want to quickly make is that we are talking about the Second Age Elrond here. The same one who was a follower and obeyed when told to retreat. Elrond grew in wisdom and lore but in the Second Age he wasn't as great. He was more of a vassal then a true leader.

[Eonwe]

Morm, who would you have leading this? Gil-galad is not present, or has been voted off already, by a vile lynch-mob imflambed by rabble-rousers. Same for Elendil and Isildur. It seems as Elrond is the only one left...

[The Only Real Estel]

I'm going to go off in a different direction here and vote ++ Fangorn (Treebeard)

I mean, come on he’s a complete disgrace – he can’t even remember what his woman looks like!!!

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by mormegil

But the one point I want to quickly make is that we are talking about the Second Age Elrond here. The same one who was a follower and obeyed when told to retreat. Elrond grew in wisdom and lore but in the Second Age he wasn't as great. He was more of a vassal then a true leader.

Yes, but with the benefit of our position on the space-time continuum, we can see his potential for the Third Age. Where would the world be if we voted out the Einsteins, Beethovens and other giants before their greatness came to fruition? Nowhere.

I'm actually quite tempted to vote with The Wolfman Sauce. There are valid points to be made about Cirdan's uselessness. But such an earth-shattering event might cause the show to implode.

And so

++ERENDIS

Eomer is correct. Her selfishness renders her an unworthy candidate.

EDIT: I see that Sauce has changed his vote to Elrond. No chance of agreeing there. The Universe is safe.

[Eonwe]

Back from a long absence on this thread (WW, of course, left me stripped of all free time, even that devoted to other portions of teh 'Downs), I will way in here.

This is a bit of a different game. Many of the contestents are somewhat obscure, at least to me. Therefore, it is hard for me to form any very concrete convictions on who should stay and who should go.

However, I have assembled a list of those that I do have strong fealings about, and these are as follows:

Celebrimbor: He really must command a postion of great respect. This is not the age of tortured, convoluted and tragic personalities sacraficing all that is beautiful in a vain lunge for a fleeting hope (ie. Feanor, and the Three C's). This is the age of reconsiliation, where the son will redress the wrongs of the father.

Celebrian: I like her. Though she never is granted an appreacance, as far as I know, in any histories, she still commands a place among the great. But for her, the race of Men would be sadly diminished.

Cirdan: Would you really denign one so great and steadfast as Cirdan a place in the finals? One who, along side, Galadrial, has fought the "long defeat" and not in the super-nova bursts, again, of other tragic figures such as Feanor. He is a steadfast rock, picking up the pieces of the fallen, gathering the lost and the weary.

Anarion: A great man of his age. Hereis a stalwart champion of the cause aganist Sauron and his minion, the Witch King.

Sauron and The Witch King: What are we here for, but to defend against the suble encroachment of evil?

[Gil-Galad]

++Anarion the head smashed in


lay his broken body to rest already

[Kuruharan]

I'm going to cast a vote against somebody who broke the rules in order to beg for mercy for everybody breaking the rules. A greater spasm of illogical thinking you'll never find (outside of this thread and werewolf).

++ Amandil

[the phantom]

Ha ha! Very good, Kuru. When you put it that way, Amandil looks like as good a choice as Erendis.

[Diamond18]

Seems to be a dead heat between Amandil and Erendis, with four (4) (IIII) votes each!

But come now, can you see Erendis risking her life to save others, misguided rule-breakers though some of them might be? Let he who has no sin cast the first stone, after all.

EDIT: Oops, silly me, I forgot to count my own vote, which puts Erendis at five (5) (IIIII) votes! Things are looking up.

[Kuruharan]

H.A.G. will be greatly displeased if Erendis is voted off. She is practically the poster child for everything they stand for...

The producers are hovering on the edge of hysteria (again)...

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Originally Posted by the phantom

You'll notice I never used that reasoning myself. I thought it was senseless, but seeing as they were voting a way that didn't bother me I didn't see the need to say anything. Got it?

Of course I get it, but I still think that it's a bit unfair to grumble only against JennyHallu just because she voted for a character you like. But that's not essential here, so never mind.

And, wow, you actually looked up Vilya in the Encyclopedia of Arda? I honestly didn't think you had thought this thing through that much. I suppose I should give you some credit for that, though your information is wrong. According to the appendix in LOTR, Gil-galad "before he died gave his ring to Elrond". But Rivendell was founded in 1697, nearly 1,800 years before Gil-galad's death.

Also, Rivendell was founded only four years after the three Elven Rings were hidden, and we know Vilya was originally given to Gil-galad.

What! The day when the Encyclopedia of Arda is wrong, the skies will rain crickets and Finland wins the Eurovision Song Contest!

Let's see... I quote you, phantom:

Gil-galad "before he died gave his ring to Elrond".

Rivendell was founded in 1697, nearly 1,800 years before Gil-galad's death.

I don't see how these two sentences would rule out the possibility that Elrond used Vilya to found Rivendell. And as long as I don't see the contradiction, I keep using the Encyclopedia of Arda as my source material against Elrond.

Not to mention the fact that Rivendell was founded while SAURON HAD HIS RING! During that time, the elves DIDN'T USE THEIR RINGS. So even if Elrond somehow had Vilya in his possesion during that time, he didn't use it.

So, no- Elrond did not use Vilya to found Rivendell, no matter what your precious encyclopedia may say.

Well, my precious encyclopedia says:

"Elrond remained in Rivendell, where he prospered with the aid of the Great Ring, Vilya."

and

"It [Rivendell] lay in a deep valley in the western foothills of the Misty Mountains, and endured, under the protection of Elrond's Ring Vilya."

So, at least at some point Vilya was used. Whether it was used when Rivendell was founded or not, it is not so important. Anyone can put up a tent in some valley and call it a refuge.

I think you should be willing to change your vote just out of respect for the facts I've brought up. And if not for that reason, you should change your vote because it pains me to see someone so beautiful make such an ugly decision.

*hopes flattery will work*

I think you should be willing to vote for Elrond just out of respect for the facts I have brought up. And if not for that reason, you should vote for him because it pains you to see me voting a different character than you.


++ELROND

[the phantom]

So, at least at some point Vilya was used.

Umm... duh. Of course Vilya was used in some way at some point. All the rings were used in some way at some point. I'm not really sure why you think that somehow justifies voting Elrond out.

Anyone can put up a tent in some valley and call it a refuge.

Yes, anyone can make a refuge, but not everyone can put up a refuge that can stand up for a considerable time against Mordor. Here's some quotes from LOTR-

'Is Rivendell safe?'
'Yes, at present, until all else is conquered.

Indeed there is power in Rivendell to withstand the might of Mordor, for a while

The House of Elrond is more than a mere refuge, and Elrond is more than a mere elf. He can control a friggin' river, for goodness sake!

Can Ohtar claim that? How about Oropher?

Then why aren't you voting for them?

I think you should be willing to vote for Elrond just out of respect for the facts I have brought up.

I can't see that you've brought any new information to the table. You haven't disproved a word of what I've said. All that you managed to do was to say that Elrond, at some point, used Vilya, which hardly qualifies as valuable information.

Way to go, Spawn. You've proven that you are not only unintelligent, but stubborn as well. There's nothing I love more than someone who doesn't know what they are talking about and then refuses to change their opinion despite good information.

PS You can reverse my opinion of you rather quickly simply by changing your vote to a better candidate.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Umm... duh. Of course Vilya was used in some way at some point.

I'm glad we agree.

Yes, anyone can make a refuge, but not everyone can put up a refuge that can stand up for a considerable time against Mordor.

One word: Vilya.

The quotes of Rivendell that you provided are from the Third Age. I doubt the refuge that Elrond founded in the Second Age was as glorious as it was later after he had had time to make it stronger with the aid of Vilya.

Also, I'm not voting for people based on if they can control a river or not.

I can't see that you've brought any new information to the table. You haven't disproved a word of what I've said.

Neither have you, m'dear. One thing you got right, though. I am stubborn.

PS You can reverse my opinion of you rather quickly simply by changing your vote to a better candidate.

So, you respect people who blindly follow your opinion whatever it is and don't use their own brain? Sorry, not interested.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Yes! Erendis is out! Joy encapsulates!

Diamond, Estel, whoever wants my help: NO DEAL. I said before that the squabbling factions are highly unattractive, and not more so than badgering singletons. So have at it!

Eliminate my favourite character Treebeard if you want. I'm sure he'd rather be back in the forest away from the reality-show fashionistas anyway.

I am outta here.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I forgot one thing...

Originally Posted by the phantom

All the rings were used in some way at some point. I'm not really sure why you think that somehow justifies voting Elrond out.

I never said that I vote for Elrond because he had a ring. You might want to reread my case before this debate totally loses its track.

[Kuruharan]

...somebody comes along and busts it up?

Oh well, when one thing doesn't work, move on to something else...

++ Cirdan

An Elf being in Middle-earth for three ages is just downright unnatural.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

A planet where elves evolve beards from copying men!

+ + Cirdan

[Gil-Galad]

sooner or later your all going to have to vote for Anarion...


++Anarion

[Kuruharan]

sooner or later your all going to have to vote for Anarion

True. The Elendili do need pruning. However, a vote by you for Elrond today might help the Anarion cause tomorrow...

[Elu Ancalime]

sooner or later your all going to have to vote for Anarion...

So vote for him later. Any of the Elendili should be candidates for the winner, minas Ohtar, who has been dealt with.

Anarion- Joint King of Gondor, whose line was filled with notables such as Hyarmendacil victor of Umbar, and Gondor outlasted its sister kingdom which was far away from Sauron. Anarion had his own city and he died a war hero, whose death might have caused Gandalf and Theoden to remeber it in front of Orthanc, saving their lives.

Elendil-Obviously. Elf-Friend, High King of the Dunedain, the Noah of the Numenoreans, whose realm was nothing but 'Kingly-Land.' Elendil should be winner!

Just some thoughts for tomorrow if you want to kill off a father and his son.
________
Honda cm400

[Gil-Galad]

--Anarion

++Elrond


i expect your vote for Anarion in the future Kuru

[Elu Ancalime]

i expect your vote for Anarion in the future Kuru

Why dost though persecute a noble so?

Kuru, if you want to do some real damage, why not landslide Celembrimbor....
________
Range rover