Survivor: The Second Age - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

JennyHallu · 03-09-2006, 12:11 PM

I always felt sorry for Celeborn. He was a great man in his own right, but so eclipsed by his wife, who felt free to run rough-shod over him whenever she pleased. Vote Khamul and support helpless, henpecked, husbands!

EDIT: Like mine

Feanor of the Peredhil · 03-09-2006, 12:16 PM

Celeborn is awesome. He stormed Mirkwood and drove out the baddies, he's supposedly the wisest guy around in the 3rd Age... I like him and don't want to see him go.

Khamul, on the other hand, is merely a cronie. Sure, he's got his own name, but he's a minion. No will of his own. No point in keeping him around.

++Khamul

lord of dor-lomin · 03-09-2006, 12:17 PM

To counter The Saucepan Man's obvious anti-elf attitude, I vote for
+ + Khamul

Mithalwen · 03-09-2006, 12:18 PM

I don't think Celeborn is henpecked .... I do find it slightly distressing in this day and age, when modern women are benefitting form the struggle and sacrifices made by our elder sisters, that in a work, which is so often criticised for a lack of strong, female characters, a man who is prepared to let his wife shine is assumed to be an inferior, emasculated specimen. He must have many great qualities not mentioned in the book.

Anguirel · 03-09-2006, 12:25 PM

Actually, I think he has several that are mentioned.

1. His emancipated attitude to women, noted above. His acceptance of Galadriel's talents, and his chiding of Boromir for ignoring old wives' tales...

2. Evident military ability seen in his three defences of Lorien and subsequent conquest of Dol Guldur.

3. Ability and popularity as a ruler. He stayed on to rule a contented Rivendell without his wife, and apparently lasted a good long time (fanfic authors even like to say he left in the Seventh Age...)

Folwren · 03-09-2006, 12:38 PM

I don't know who I am making angry with this vote, or who I help (except the one who wrote me), but I'm casting this vote. . . and hoping I won't find it necessary to cast another.

++Khamul

- - Folwrey

Tuor of Gondolin · 03-09-2006, 12:49 PM

Actually there's something to be said for Celeborn, faithful husband, etc..
So - - Celeborn

+ + Khamul

Boromir88 · 03-09-2006, 02:16 PM

Found some more time. I think I'll vote for

++Khamul

I mean he's only second in command of the nazgul, far inferior to the Witch-King. I'm usually a pro-keep the bad guys around, because they make really good TV rankings, but he's second in command. He's a chump, he's useless. Celeborn brings in much more ratings because of the girls swooning over him and wanting Galadriel murdered.

littlemanpoet · 03-09-2006, 03:53 PM

++ Khamul because he was a Black Numenorean who couldn't even live long enough to earn his ring, it had to be given to him on a dare.

Lhunardawen · 03-10-2006, 01:43 AM

Thank you, everyone, for helping me exact my revenge. Especially you Formendacil for having such a mood as you had when the Day ended.

I'm sorry dancing spawn, but I am left far too devastated by Ereinion's death to even bother about Celeborn - who I now see deserves to last longer in this game.

My next target? ++OROPHIR

Come now...look at what he has helped bring forth into the world! Captain Obvious himself!

Besides...I didn't even know who he was before I asked Nilp.

Lalaith · 03-10-2006, 03:28 AM

Names I will not take from you, of elf-hater or thrall.

I am neither. Furthermore, I respect fine battle-craft in my enemies as well as my allies, and can only admire the mustering that occured in the dying hours of the campaign last night.

I remain, however, committed to balance in this game, and feel that in the spirit of fairness we should focus on one of the most numerous tribes today - the Elendili or the Sindar. To prove I am no mindless elf-culler, I choose the Elendili. Here, the obvious candidate must be Amandil.
He doesn't want to be on Middle Earth anyway. He proved it not just in his actions, sailing off to the west, but in his very name: it means "devoted to Aman".

So vote off Amandil. It's what he would have wanted. Those years being 'wormtongue' to Ar-Pharazon have taken their toll, as well....

++AMANDIL

JennyHallu · 03-10-2006, 07:50 AM

++Orophir, because 'e's 'orrible.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 03-10-2006, 07:57 AM

I imagine it won't be long before my campaign spawns a tribe of Erendis fanboys.

I thought of another reason to dislike her: poor parenting. She could never make the sacrifice could she? If her child could be happy only at the cost of her putting in a little effort, then she wasn't gonna do it, dammit! And it's not just the personal effects; think of the responsibility to her country. And she had no interest in leading. Utterly unworthy of being Queen.

Selfish, selfish, selfish. So unlikeable.

++ERENDIS

Anguirel · 03-10-2006, 07:59 AM

Hmmm. Lalaith interests me.

We can't keep any Aman-loving lickspittles here, certainly...

--SAURON, ++AMANDIL

dancing spawn of ungoliant · 03-10-2006, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lhuna

I'm sorry dancing spawn, but I am left far too devastated by Ereinion's death to even bother about Celeborn

Well, that makes two of us now.

Hmm, who's this Orophir? A long lost twin of Oropher, or perhaps some distant relative of Orophin?

In any case, it is not time to vote for him today.

You know, there are some people who can make a comeback gracefully. Then there are those who just don't seem to realize when their time in the limelight is over. I'm speaking, of course, of Elrond. He wasn't a success during the previous seasons, and although they say that one should never give up, if he never wins and never gives up, that's plain folly.

To be fair, let's take a look if he did anything special during the Second Age that would stand out in his favour.

Firstly, he did some fighting. Whether violence is a way to solve conflicts, that's another question, but was there something special in that? Come on, it was the Second Age, who wouldn't have been in a battle or two? Secondly, he founded Rivendell. Well, I have mixed feelings about this. I mean, a little bling bling like Vilya and anyone could have done that. Besides, I have my doubts of his motives. Tra-la-la-lally?

The "Caveman" is not going to make it till the end anyway, so let us give the first timers a chance and get rid of those who have already proved their inadequacy to become a survivor.

++ELROND

**The Saucepan Man** · 03-10-2006, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancing spawn of ungoliant

Tra-la-la-lally?

Ooh yes, I had forgotten the Tra-la-la-lallies. Now that's tempting. But then, so is Celebrimbor and his Ring-based larks. And Amandil too, with his ill-conceived voyage West.

Hmm, tempting choices all ...

**The Saucepan Man** · 03-10-2006, 10:06 AM

I have decided to propose an alternative candidate.

Imagine the scene. Cirdan the Shipwright is sat with his feet up by the fire in his house in Alqualondë, his great-great-great-great-grandchildren on his knee.

“Great-great-great-great-grandsire, what did you do in the First Age?”

“Looked after the harbour, built some ships, avoided battles.”

“And what did you do in the Second Age?”

“Er - looked after the harbour, built some ships, avoided battles.”

“And what did you do in the Third Age?”

“Um - looked after the harbour, built some ships, avoided battles …”

*silence*

“Oh, and I gave Olorin a Ring of Power.”

“Cool. Why?”

“So I didn’t have to get involved.”

“Oh! Anything else?”

“Yes. I grew a beard.”

“And what did you do in the Fourth Age?”

“Finished looking after the harbour, built a ship, sailed West.”

“Man, great-great-great-great-grandsire, you’re a loser.”

+ + CIRDAN

And before anyone starts shouting "Elf-Hater"", the Sindar remain one of the two strongest tribes. I would like to even things out and my heart has been moved by the strong feelings that many have shown for Celeborn. Indeed, I find it within mysef to feel a little sympathy for the poor emasculated, hen-pecked fellow.

03-09-2006, 12:11 PM	#1
JennyHallu The Pearl, The Lily Maid Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my luxury Barrow, snuggled up in a pile of satin pillows, eating fresh fruit. Posts: 1,628	I always felt sorry for Celeborn. He was a great man in his own right, but so eclipsed by his wife, who felt free to run rough-shod over him whenever she pleased. Vote Khamul and support helpless, henpecked, husbands! EDIT: Like mine __________________ <=== Lookee, lookee, lots of IM handles!

03-09-2006, 12:17 PM	#3
lord of dor-lomin Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: dor-lomin, of course Posts: 167	To counter The Saucepan Man's obvious anti-elf attitude, I vote for + + Khamul __________________ I used to be indecisive. Now, I'm not so sure.

03-09-2006, 12:18 PM	#4
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	I don't think Celeborn is henpecked .... I do find it slightly distressing in this day and age, when modern women are benefitting form the struggle and sacrifices made by our elder sisters, that in a work, which is so often criticised for a lack of strong, female characters, a man who is prepared to let his wife shine is assumed to be an inferior, emasculated specimen. He must have many great qualities not mentioned in the book. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

03-09-2006, 12:25 PM	#5
Anguirel Byronic Brand Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The 1590s Posts: 2,778	Actually, I think he has several that are mentioned. 1. His emancipated attitude to women, noted above. His acceptance of Galadriel's talents, and his chiding of Boromir for ignoring old wives' tales... 2. Evident military ability seen in his three defences of Lorien and subsequent conquest of Dol Guldur. 3. Ability and popularity as a ruler. He stayed on to rule a contented Rivendell without his wife, and apparently lasted a good long time (fanfic authors even like to say he left in the Seventh Age...) __________________ Among the friendly dead, being bad at games did not seem to matter -Il Lupo Fenriso

03-09-2006, 12:38 PM	#6
Folwren Messenger of Hope Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a tiny, insignificant little town in one of the many States. Posts: 5,076	I don't know who I am making angry with this vote, or who I help (except the one who wrote me), but I'm casting this vote. . . and hoping I won't find it necessary to cast another. ++Khamul - - Folwrey __________________ A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. - C.S. Lewis

03-09-2006, 12:16 PM	#2
Feanor of the Peredhil La Belle Dame sans Merci Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: perpetual uncertainty Posts: 5,517	Celeborn is awesome. He stormed Mirkwood and drove out the baddies, he's supposedly the wisest guy around in the 3rd Age... I like him and don't want to see him go. Khamul, on the other hand, is merely a cronie. Sure, he's got his own name, but he's a minion. No will of his own. No point in keeping him around. ++Khamul

03-09-2006, 12:49 PM	#7
Tuor of Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Pennsylvania, WtR, passed Sarn Gebir: Above the rapids (1239 miles) BtR, passed Black Rider Stopping Place (31 miles) Posts: 1,548	Actually there's something to be said for Celeborn, faithful husband, etc.. So - - Celeborn + + Khamul __________________ Aure Entuluva!

03-09-2006, 02:16 PM	#8
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	Popping in again.... Found some more time. I think I'll vote for ++Khamul I mean he's only second in command of the nazgul, far inferior to the Witch-King. I'm usually a pro-keep the bad guys around, because they make really good TV rankings, but he's second in command. He's a chump, he's useless. Celeborn brings in much more ratings because of the girls swooning over him and wanting Galadriel murdered. __________________ Fenris Penguin

03-09-2006, 03:53 PM	#9
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	++ Khamul because he was a Black Numenorean who couldn't even live long enough to earn his ring, it had to be given to him on a dare.

03-10-2006, 01:43 AM	#10
Lhunardawen Hauntress of the Havens Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IN it, but not OF it Posts: 2,538	Thank you, everyone, for helping me exact my revenge. Especially you Formendacil for having such a mood as you had when the Day ended. I'm sorry dancing spawn, but I am left far too devastated by Ereinion's death to even bother about Celeborn - who I now see deserves to last longer in this game. My next target? ++OROPHIR Come now...look at what he has helped bring forth into the world! Captain Obvious himself! Besides...I didn't even know who he was before I asked Nilp.

03-10-2006, 03:28 AM	#11
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	Names I will not take from you, of elf-hater or thrall. I am neither. Furthermore, I respect fine battle-craft in my enemies as well as my allies, and can only admire the mustering that occured in the dying hours of the campaign last night. I remain, however, committed to balance in this game, and feel that in the spirit of fairness we should focus on one of the most numerous tribes today - the Elendili or the Sindar. To prove I am no mindless elf-culler, I choose the Elendili. Here, the obvious candidate must be Amandil. He doesn't want to be on Middle Earth anyway. He proved it not just in his actions, sailing off to the west, but in his very name: it means "devoted to Aman". So vote off Amandil. It's what he would have wanted. Those years being 'wormtongue' to Ar-Pharazon have taken their toll, as well.... ++AMANDIL __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

03-10-2006, 07:50 AM	#12
JennyHallu The Pearl, The Lily Maid Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my luxury Barrow, snuggled up in a pile of satin pillows, eating fresh fruit. Posts: 1,628	++Orophir, because 'e's 'orrible. __________________ <=== Lookee, lookee, lots of IM handles!

03-10-2006, 07:57 AM	#13
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	I imagine it won't be long before my campaign spawns a tribe of Erendis fanboys. I thought of another reason to dislike her: poor parenting. She could never make the sacrifice could she? If her child could be happy only at the cost of her putting in a little effort, then she wasn't gonna do it, dammit! And it's not just the personal effects; think of the responsibility to her country. And she had no interest in leading. Utterly unworthy of being Queen. Selfish, selfish, selfish. So unlikeable. ++ERENDIS __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

03-10-2006, 07:59 AM	#14
Anguirel Byronic Brand Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The 1590s Posts: 2,778	Hmmm. Lalaith interests me. We can't keep any Aman-loving lickspittles here, certainly... --SAURON, ++AMANDIL __________________ Among the friendly dead, being bad at games did not seem to matter -Il Lupo Fenriso

03-10-2006, 10:06 AM	#17
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	I have decided to propose an alternative candidate. Imagine the scene. Cirdan the Shipwright is sat with his feet up by the fire in his house in Alqualondë, his great-great-great-great-grandchildren on his knee. “Great-great-great-great-grandsire, what did you do in the First Age?” “Looked after the harbour, built some ships, avoided battles.” “And what did you do in the Second Age?” “Er - looked after the harbour, built some ships, avoided battles.” “And what did you do in the Third Age?” “Um - looked after the harbour, built some ships, avoided battles …” silence “Oh, and I gave Olorin a Ring of Power.” “Cool. Why?” “So I didn’t have to get involved.” “Oh! Anything else?” “Yes. I grew a beard.” “And what did you do in the Fourth Age?” “Finished looking after the harbour, built a ship, sailed West.” “Man, great-great-great-great-grandsire, you’re a loser.” + + CIRDAN And before anyone starts shouting "Elf-Hater"", the Sindar remain one of the two strongest tribes. I would like to even things out and my heart has been moved by the strong feelings that many have shown for Celeborn. Indeed, I find it within mysef to feel a little sympathy for the poor emasculated, hen-pecked fellow. __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!