What did they mean...? Interpretations!

[Ainaserkewen]

Sometimes, interpreting Tolkien is like interpreting the Bible, you need a degree in liturature.
If you wonder about a phrase or passage in any of Tolkien's books, it's maning or purpose, bring it up here and we'll all help decipher it, so to understand our favorite author better, also so that our Tolkien scholars can show off their stuff a little.

[*Varda*]

Indeed there is a power in Rivendell to withstand the might of Mordor, for a while: and elsewhere other powers still dwell. There is power too, of another kind in the Shire.

Gandalf in Many Meetings

This was brought up in the chatroom, although we didn't get very far. What do you think Gandalf meant by this, the power in the Shire?

[ April 23, 2003: Message edited by: *Varda* ]

[Tinuviel87]

This is just me speculating but I believe what was meant by the power of Rivendell is simply the wisdom and power in general of the Elves, esp. considering Elrond still had a ring of power.
The Hobbit power is likely just that Hobbits are so simple and carefree that it is difficult to corrupt such a race, it would take a v. long time (aka Gollum) considering they do not really seek power, (with the exception of the nasty S-B's [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] )
~Tinuviel

[ April 23, 2003: Message edited by: Tinuviel87 ]

[XPhial]

I agree that the power of the Shire, and in the Hobbits themselves, is in their simplicity, but it's also in their toughness when cornered. When inspired, the Hobbits are able to overthrow a Maia...a disgraced one, but a Maia nonetheless.

[davem]

Tinuviel, I agree with your interpretation of the 'power' in/of the Shire. what I think is interesting, though, is Tolkien would consider such things as a source of 'power'. Exactly the opposite of what Sauron & Saruman consider 'Power'.

[tifo_gcs]

The power to resist in Rivendell may as much be that the elves have the capability to fight Sauron in battle, as much as it may be the ring that Elrond bore.
I think XPhial hits the hammer on the head of the nail in his post on the hobbits. Except for the bit on the Maia, there are several factors involved in that, and I wonder which Maia is referred to.
Also, their tenacity and ability to resist direct evil, demonstrated by Frodo's wounding at Weathertop and his ability to withstand a magic wound that a hardy warrior would have been quickly overcome by.

[Ainaserkewen]

They meant Saruman I guess.
Hobbits really are amazing creatures as was said before. There is a power there. And the fact that they never tried to overpower anyone else, got it so that no one bothered to try and overpower them and over time, everyone in the world(almost) Forgot that they even existed.

[The Saucepan Man]

What I think is interesting, though, is Tolkien would consider such things as a source of 'power'. Exactly the opposite of what Sauron & Saruman consider 'Power'.

Precisely, davem. The likes of Sauron and Saruman think of Power in terms of physical strength, force of arms, possession of magical items etc. And so they do not recognise the quiet, determined and resilient strength sitting there in an obscure region of Eriador, whereas Gandalf of course does. They both make the same mistake of first overlooking, and then underestimating, Hobbits and this accounts for much of their undoing.

While I would not wish generally to lump Boromir in with Sauron and Saruman, the same might be said of him on this point. He sees Power in the same terms and so thinks of it as folly to send the Ring into the Enemy's backyard in the hands of a Halfling. His brother, on the other hand, recognises the power in Frodo and Sam and their suitablity for the task in hand, and so lets them go.

[Bêthberry]

I think it might be possible to understand power not in terms of physical might, but in terms of who or what one wishes to control.

The scene in which Frodo offers Gandalf the ring, and Gandalf refuses it, is I think central in understanding how Gandalf defines power. That and the other scene in which the Ring has no influence over Tom Bombadil.

Power I think refers to having dominion over oneself and not desiring to dominate others. Saruman and Sauron wish to control others. Saruman's intent is perhaps laudable, but he succumbs to a bullying perspective in believing he knows best.

Bethberry

[ April 24, 2003: Message edited by: Bethberry ]

[Gandalf_theGrey]

To add to the answers already given, I would say much of the power of Hobbits lies in their wholesome littleness with its inherent innocence, combined with their joy for life. I'd even go a step further and say celebration of life, for look at the tremendous importance of birthdays and the Party Tree! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Dwarves are bent on gold and other treasure, Elves are tempted to melancholy thinking of great deeds of past glory, Men to crave power. In contrast to Dwarves, Hobbits write songs about life's simplest pleasures, a hot bath, a comfortable bed. In contrast to Elves, Hobbits content themselves with the everyday doings of friends and family, noting the importance of the smallest person in their genealogy. In contrast to Men, Hobbits would rather taste simple freedom and leisure than burden themselves with crown or scepter.

As has been correctly pointed out, Hobbits possess a latent courage. The peacefulness of Shire society does much to nurture this sort of hardihood. For in times of trial and testing, a typical Hobbit has memories of lifelong security based on the love of family and friends from which to draw strength and support.

Oh, and of course I'm a firm believer that pipeweed also plays a worthy part. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Gandalf the Grey

[Scott]

While I most certainly agree with the overwhelming suppoprt in the corner of the halflings, I must add that when I first read the passage I thought that he was referring more towards the Dunedain who watched and guarded the borders of Eriador as well as the fact that the Grey Havens are indeed a nice source of power and possible protection for the Shire. The Dunedain certainly possessed the powers needed to protect the Shire just as much as the hobbits did (although I'm sure that pipeweed could very well give hobbits the upper hand if cornered into a scrap). Just my interpretation.

[tom bombariffic]

funny, i had never thought about that before, but to me the first answer was the entwives.
I have always assumed that the entwives live in the shire, although it cant be proved. I have read, in previous strings, quotes that suggest that trees have been seen moving around the shire. There is also a quote from the film

"...the old forest on the borders of buckland. folk used to say there was something in the water that made the trees grow tall...and come alive"

I believe this is from the book, although I admit that when i looked for it in the "Treebeard" chapter and the end of "The Uruk Hai", the place in which it was mentioned in the film, I couldn't find it.

For these reasons, and various others that can be found in the other strings on this topic, I assumed that The Entwives lived in the shire. If they did there is no doubt that Gandalf would have known, and, knowing how mysterious he is, no reason why he would have told the ents - he'd probably decide he should keep out of it and what would be would be etc.

But to come to a long-winded and drawn out conclusion, he may have been referring to the entwives as the power in the shire.

er...sorry to waste all that time.
Bombariffic

[Iarwain]

I love the whole "power" thing. Here's a thread on that general subject : Magic vs. Power

But anyway, I agree with the theory that Tolkien was talking about the incorruptablility and general "toughness" of the Shirefolk.

Iarwain