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Old 02-14-2006, 07:22 PM   #1
Elu Ancalime
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but I would say that Saruman and Radagast each failed
Since Sauruman went bad all the way, and Radagast seemed to only have a case of ADD, it think what happened after would be the defining statement: Radagast's spirit was allowed to reenter Valinor, or at least had the potential. Now, then Radagast would either have to go to the Havens (which we should be able to rule out) or have been killed (or possibly died from greif like the elves did???) So ruling out him being slain, something might have happened like this: Many of his animal friends died, and species died out, (eagles became lesser) and so he went sad and 'let go.' I think he would be allowed back to Valinor. Melian was let back in no question, right? So even though Aman was taken from the circles of the world, i think him being an Ainu he could let his spirit go back.
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Old 06-12-2006, 10:56 PM   #2
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I have some things to add to this old discussion.

I don't believe that any were destined to fail as Firefoot suggested. I just don't see the need and point in sending somebody if there is no hope in success. Manwe had the most forsight and knew to send Gandalf and Cirdan obviously agreed, but this doesn't mean that Saruman couldn't have succeeded also. There was hope for him even at the end, else Gandalf would not have returned for him. He knew the hope was slim but he returned on that 'fools hope' to see if he could help return Saruman to a degree of his former greatness and make him faithful, a bit diminished, but faithful in the end. That failed however it illustrates that none of the Istari were destined to fail.

Radagast's failing was not in his love and care of animals, rather in his apathy. He just didn't care enough, he meant well but didn't do everything required for success. The comparision between Radagast and Sauruman is equivalent to the difference between a sin of omission and a sin of commission.

Radagast could be favorable compared to ents that Treebeard describes as becoming more tree-like. They are apathetic and loose the vision and drive and become more tree-like; Radagast, in my opinion, would become more mortal like in his apathy, he wouldn't cross the ocean to Valinor as he is dwindling and dimishing in his knowledge and prior greatness. I think he would remain in Middle-earth a mere shadow of what he became continually tending to his micro-environment without concerning himself with the goings on of the world around him. He wouldn't die but wouldn't grow.
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Old 06-16-2006, 04:35 AM   #3
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I thought Yavanna sent Radagast because she seemed to know that he had the most love for her works. Anyway in this sense Radagast seemed to have both failed and suceeded--he failed to ammend all (plant and animal) hurts of ME, but he did become friends of some of them.

And though Radagast indirectly aided Gandalf and Co., he did help in his own little way...
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Radagast did aid alittle,sending the eagles and all....
hehe...
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Old 06-17-2006, 07:01 AM   #4
SarumanCymraeg
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Even though Radagast can be deemed to failure, it has been suggested (although I'm not sure if Tolkien himself said so explicitly) that Radagast was responsible for the Eagles' coming at certain appropriate times (such as the Battle of the Morannon and Five Armies).

Of the Blue Wizards, Tolkien came to theorise that they did not, in fact, fail in their mission, but were fundamental in helping some in the East resist Sauron. If they had not gone East, then Sauron's influence there would be much stronger and he would be able to muster a much stronger army to conquer the West.
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Old 06-17-2006, 08:56 AM   #5
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Two quotes on the blue wizards

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In 1954 he was uncertain about the Blue Wizards, but in a letter of 1958 he says of them "I fear that they failed, as Saruman did, thought doubtless in different ways; and I suspect they were founders or beginners of secret cults and 'magic' traditions".

--The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, p.280
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However, in The Peoples of Middle-Earth they get a happier ending; they "must have had great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of [the] East".

-- The Peoples of Middle-Earth, p.385
So it seems that Tolkien himself was divided. But it should not be forgotten that he said in unfinished tales

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of all the Istari, one only remained faithful
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Even though Radagast can be deemed to failure, it has been suggested (although I'm not sure if Tolkien himself said so explicitly) that Radagast was responsible for the Eagles' coming at certain appropriate times (such as the Battle of the Morannon and Five Armies).
Rather I think Gwaihir was responsible for these actions and Radagast had little to do with the actually movement of deep events in Middle-earth.
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Old 08-31-2010, 06:47 PM   #6
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Could it be said that Radagast's knowledge taught Sarumann to use the crows as spies?
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Old 08-31-2010, 07:29 PM   #7
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Could it be said that Radagast's knowledge taught Sarumann to use the crows as spies?
Actually, I think it was likely Radagast himself who was directing the birds and animals to spy and report to Saruman, on the latter's orders. Saruman doesn't seem to have had the skill, or desire, to make nice with lesser creatures.

I suspect Radagast never cottoned to Saruman's betrayal, else he'd have taken some active part against him. I think Radagast just wandered around, blissfully unaware of what was really going on. Radagast probably still thought Saruman was an ally, and that helping Saruman with information gathering was his bit in the fight against Sauron.
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