The Hobbit - Chapter 03 - A Short Rest

[Raynor]

if you hoped to undergo a systematic study to check if any documents included moon-letters then you'd have to get out all your Dwarven documents every night of the year and try them in the moonlight.

Well, I guess this is very much in tune with dwarven doors which are undetectable when shut, or the secret dwarven language which they teach to none. Suspicious kind, eh?

[Alchisiel]

I don't have a lot to say about this chapter "A Short Rest" so I will make my comments..... short. I do like the light heartedness of the elves in this chapter. The comment "Don't dip your beard in the foam father, it is long enough without watering it!" always makes me chuckle. But I have often wondered what Gandalf meant when he said, "Valleys have ears..." is he implying that there is danger lurking so close to Rivendell? What danger could be out there? The Nazgul?

[Raynor]

But I have often wondered what Gandalf meant when he said, "Valleys have ears..." is he implying that there is danger lurking so close to Rivendell? What danger could be out there? The Nazgul?

It is rather unlikely that he is talking about a nazgul; according to the Tale fo the Years, RotK, the nazgul remain quiet between 2063 and 2951.
He seems to be actually warning about some would be gossiping elves:

- Hush, hush! Good People! and good night! said Gandalf, who came last. Valleys have ears, and some elves have over merry tongues. Good night!

[Formendacil]

A short chapter, mostly filled with happy tidings, this chapter is one that nonetheless is a bit of a favourite for me, most likely because of its connections to the greater Legendarium.

Think about it. In this chapter we become acquainted with Elrond Halfelven- although at this stage he seems to be more emphasized as Elrond Half-Man, the son of Earendil, and an immediate link to the Silmarillion. Then we get the revelation of the true nature of Orcrist, Glamdring, and Sting- swords of Gondolin. And, to be quite serious, I really WOULD like the know the story of how those swords came from the fall of Gondolin to hands of the trolls. I've always been quite fascinated by the fact that Glamdring was "The King of Gondolin's Sword"- meaning that it belonged to Turgon. Who took it from his dead body?

On the same subject, who bore Orcrist? This sword seems to have been the partner of Glamdring- yet it is not marked out as the king's sword! Was it Tuor's? This seems unlikely, since Tuor bore an axe in the Book of Lost Tales (and from notes in Unfinished Tales, it seems that this remained Tolkien's idea). Was it Maeglin's sword? Maeglin seems like the only other of the Gondolindrim who would have been likely to bear the partner of the King's sword.

Finally, if Sting was in the same batch of weapons... was it also born by some high lord of Gondolin? There is no evidence that it was... but the fascinating possibility remains.

Another connection to the greater Legendarium that will bear major fruit in the Lord of the Rings is the mention of Durin- the father of the Longbeards. Really, from Thorin's brief description here we have the genesis of Appendix A III.

Not an action chapter, to be sure... but one that is fraught with ties to the greater world of Middle-Earth.

[Alchisiel]

Thanks Raynor I had forgotten my history.

[Raynor]

to be quite serious, I really WOULD like the know the story of how those swords came from the fall of Gondolin to hands of the trolls

Well, I for one find Elrond's explanation good enough :

- Whence did the trolls get them, I wonder? said Thorin looking at his sword with new interest.
- I could not say, said Elrond, but one may guess that your trolls had plundered other plunderers, or come on the remnants of old robberies in some hold in the mountains of the North. I have heard that there are still forgotten treasures of old to be found in the deserted caverns of the mines of Moria, since the dwarf and goblin war.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

A short chapter, mostly filled with happy tidings, this chapter is one that nonetheless is a bit of a favourite for me, most likely because of its connections to the greater Legendarium.

Think about it. In this chapter we become acquainted with Elrond Halfelven- although at this stage he seems to be more emphasized as Elrond Half-Man, the son of Earendil

I agree, this chapter does link us in to the wider stories and history of Middle-earth.

I also get the sense when reading the Hobbit again that Rivendell is a truly important place in Middle-earth. Was it just me or did anyone else feel that the glories of Lothlorien somewhat overshadowed Rivendell in LotR? Yet Rivendell in many ways is much more important a place. It is home to Elrond who clearly has incredible powers, and is something of a seat of learning or knowledge. In both The Hobbit and in LotR we see people coming here and taking away great stores of useful information.

Rivendell is also a much more welcoming place than Lothlorien. This is possibly as it is located in a safer place, Galadriel's realm being closer to Mordor, but even though it is out of the way and quite difficult to find, it is still open to those who need to find it. Men, Dwarves and Hobbits are welcomed here - it is something of a strategic centre in Middle-earth, and a haven too.

Originally Posted by Formendacil

And, to be quite serious, I really WOULD like the know the story of how those swords came from the fall of Gondolin to hands of the trolls. I've always been quite fascinated by the fact that Glamdring was "The King of Gondolin's Sword"- meaning that it belonged to Turgon. Who took it from his dead body?

There all sorts of questions surrounding this! The sword must have been taken from Beleriand or else it would not have survived - so whichever Orcs took it, they did not take it back to Angband. Or was it Orcs who took it? How did the trolls get it, did they just find it or did they steal it? Trolls were creatures made by Melkor, so I would suppose that he would have had some in his army at Gondolin; are Trolls 'immortal'? If so, then they could even have been in possession of Glamdring for a very long time - or maybe they stole it from other trolls.

Gandalf must also have used it to fight the Balrog, which is interesting. If this Balrog was one of those involved in the downfall of Gondolin, then had it seen this same sword before, as wielded by Turgon? I wonder if this had any bearing on Gandalf's victory over the Barog. And what happened to Glamdring during Gandalf's 'death'?