LotR1-FotR-Seq12

[alatar]

Elladan and Elrohir, I can buy that. Boromir is by nature friendly and honorable, and his actions in Rivendell may have been due more to disappointment with the place and his mission (sent by the Steward) than by Aragorn personally.

He also may have been a little angry in that some no name Ranger is dating Liv, while the Steward's son's off running errands and saving Gondor. Some guys have all of the luck!

PJ doesn't directly show the relationship building between Boromir and Aragorn, and skips over the same with Legolas and Gimli. I guess we're just to 'fill in' the gaps in the stories.

[Nogrod]

Even though it's been quite a while since I saw the film last time (a year or even two), I can't help commenting on this one.

I just see the relationship passing several stages in the movie (from Boromirs' point of view):
1) "Who do you think you are?" (at Rivendell, B is the big guy on his own opinion)
2) "We'll see, who's the guy!" (rivalry at journey, giving back Frodos' ring)
3) "I'm coming to like these lads via common endurance" (training with hobbits, Caradhras, Gate to Moria etc., humility, coming down from self- / Gondor-imposed heights, or at least friendship emerging)
4) "This guy saved my life, that's a big one!" (at Moria, the birth of real respect)
5) "You may think you are a king, and a mighty guy you are, but for pity's sake, be human like me, come down from your imagined throne!" (after Moria, trying to come even, trying to meet at common ground: "we are fellows, aren't we?"))
6) "Now this guy has some mighty friends - and they make me feel weak inside, they show me, my virtues aren't so high I've imagined, they make me reflect on things that are hurting me & my self-esteem" (at Lorien, especially with Galadriel, some reverence and friendly gestures to Aragorn)
7) "Saving Gondor is the thing, and this guy has the power. Let's make allies!" (at Anduin, remembering his basic goal & trying to fit it with his new adoration of Aragorn)
8) "So you won't back me? I'll have to do it my own!" then madness caused by the ring = unleash the rage and all that follows from it
9) Repentance, sacrifice, and asking for forgivenness + propably even trying to turn Aragorn to Minas Tirith as a last honourable deed from the stewards' son for his people ("My Captain, my King")

And just remembering a thing that has striked me in the movies. It is Boromir, who advances towards Aragorn with friendly intentions a couple of times (think f.ex. about the Rivendell scene in the extended version, where he tries to make friends etc.) and Aragorn always almost scorns him off (because of his internal battles that won't allow him to attach to anything, or care, or something?).

There sure is something weird in this.

It's not fool-proof, but something like a believable developement? How it compares to the book... that's a different question.

Sorry to enlarge this issue again out from the scene the discussion originally started.

[Elladan and Elrohir]

Nogrod, I think you make a good point about the relationship of Aragorn and Boromir. Boro is indeed the one who extends his hand, and 'Gorn always seems to want to draw back.

Of course, we know from the book that in their youth, Boromir's father Denethor was very hostile to Aragorn, and this may partially account for his reticence. I also think part of it has to do with Aragorn being introverted. Note that he can be very aggressive when he chooses (think Frodo at the Inn), but not here.

And, there may also be some pride involved. Aragorn is a self-deprecating figure ("The same blood flows through my veins. The same weakness."), and ironically, that's usually a sign of pride, not humility.

Aragorn's not willing to automatically make friends with a man of Gondor, the very kingdom he is destined to rule, because 1) this guy does not accept him, 2) this guy's father hated him, and 3) this guy shows early signs of being drawn to the Ring, the fault of Aragorn's ancestor Isildur and the fault of Men. Okay, so there's three reasons at least. Maybe pride isn't involved. What say ye?

[Farael]

Adding my two cents to a bit of an older discussion. This sequence is mostly alright. I don't specially like movie elves besides Legolas and Arwen (say what you may, but even if their characters are not like the ones in the book, they don't look like zombies most of the time)

Which leads me to my main point,

Most elves look like zombies, including some important ones.
Celeborn does, so does his wife (Galadriel). Elrond is not as bad, but then he's only half elven. Haldir is pretty aloof, but at least he shows SOME feeling... What about those elves walking up the stairs? is it just me or do they remind you of the dead walking through the caves on TTT (I know I'm jumping ahead, but still) But going back to my present rant which relates a little more to the actual scene...

Alright now, watch any other movie, you will see that the ones that are mostly unresponsive, stare and scare people away are the zombies! I just don't understand why PJ has decided to make the elves look even more than solemn. I could understand a very solemn Celeborn or Galadriel but why, oh why, do they have to look creepy?

And their words! Is Galadriel that lousy for giving a "pep talk" in the book? of course not! because Tolkien would have had to make half of his characters to commit suicide while the other half just curl up into the fetal position and wait for death to come to them.
"Your quest stands upon the edge of a knife, stray but a little and it will fail... to the ruin of all"
Is that how you encourage a group of people who are afraid, lost and have recenty gone through the traumatic experience of facing a Balrog and loosing their leader?

"Yet hope remains, while the company is true. Do not let your hearts be troubled, go now and rest...."
Oh, thanks... I mean, when you said all that stuff about knives and edges you had me scared for a moment, but now it's all good.

Sure, she says those exact words in the books as well... yet as a part of a much longer speech!!! Why does PJ try so hard to make everything look gloomy and terrible?

We see this happening all over the place. It seems that for every encouraging word Galadriel says, ten discouraging sentences are uttered.

To conclude this rant, another of my favourite pet-peeves.... Crazy Galadriel. Please, a green Galadriel was not called for! I could understand lots of light, I could understand her looking taller and threatening... but green? and why the two voices? does her voice not have enough strenght already? (I Think it does)
That little scene is (to me at least) clearly overkill. Sort of trying to show off "hey, check this cool FX we just bought!". I don't like it.

Ok, I think I shall stop here for now... sorry to dig up an oldie but this scene is one of my biggest pet-peaves

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Farael

Most elves look like zombies, including some important ones.
Celeborn does, so does his wife (Galadriel). Elrond is not as bad, but then he's only half elven. Haldir is pretty aloof, but at least he shows SOME feeling... What about those elves walking up the stairs? is it just me or do they remind you of the dead walking through the caves on TTT (I know I'm jumping ahead, but still) But going back to my present rant which relates a little more to the actual scene...

I'm with you on that. The elves seen when the FotR are leaving Rivendell, with the exception of Arwen, look like billboards, and the Galadhrim that are walking up the steps are (1) CG and (2) rigid. Guess that's what you get when you cast for 'tall model types.'

"Walk like you're on the catwalk, but slowly...and ill paid."

Can't say that about Haldir, whom we will see in TTT.

[doug*platypus]

I see this Withywindle of a thread has meandered back to the sequence at hand. Well done, Farael! Although it was interesting to read about Aragorn vs Boromir.

I'm at real odds with PJ on the subject of Lothlórien. He decided to make it dangerous, uncomfortable and dark. When reading the book, I found it in general to be welcoming, blissful, sun-drenched, beautiful and restful.

Lothlórien

"Perilous indeed," said Aragorn, "fair and perilous; but only evil need fear it, or those who bring some evil with them."

I feel that the Fellowship deserved a break after the loss of Gandalf in Moria, and that the movie needed a little lightening as well. I really don't know what PJ hoped to achieve by seemingly turning the Fellowship's closest allies against them (a theme regrettably repeated later with Faramir; also Elrond was not as benevolent as in the book). Right from the word go, they are arrested at arrow point by Haldir and company. I wouldn't be surprised if moviegoers who had not read the book were unsure whether these elves were "goodies" or "baddies".

I really missed seeing fields of flowers, and Cerin Amroth, the "heart of Elvendom on earth". I disagree that this would have been difficult to film.

The view of Caras Galadhon in the EE was another one of those Moria moments where we are supposed to gape in awe, simply because the characters are doing so. I think that it should not be shoved in the audiences' faces so bluntly, and we should be left to form our own impression of whatever newfangled CG monstrosity PJ is showing us.

I personally don't like the stairways in Caras Galadhon. I much preferred the idea of rope ladders; what do others feel about this seemingly minor change? Perhaps PJ and co had a good reason for the change.

The entrance of Celeborn and Galadriel was likeable enough, but again we have too many shots of the characters' reactions guiding us, and we aren't left alone to bask in Cate Blanchett's reflected glory. Absolutely superb casting and performance of Galadriel. The only problem IMO is that Cate would also have made a fantastic Éowyn! The introduction scene was, however at odds with the book. In the book, Celeborn and Galadriel are far more humble. They are seated on the same level as the Fellowship, and rise when their guests enter. In the movie, they seemingly descend from on high, and remain elevated above the Fellowship, aloof one would almost say. Sam's (book) description of Galadriel as merry as a hobbit lass with flowers in her hair would be out of place. I thought Celeborn's dialogue was a bit wooden and laboured in this scene, but he is much better later in the EE when he speaks with Aragorn.

I liked the Mirror scene. I did miss Sam, but perhaps the scene works better without him; I'm not a big fan of Sean Astin as Sam at any rate, so I'm pretty happy with just Galadriel and Frodo there. I liked Frodo seeing the Eye of Sauron here; in fact, I think this should have been the first time in the movie that he saw it. I disliked Galadriel's use of "you know whom I mean" or whatever it was, simply because the "you know" line has been bashed about quite a bit between her and Saruman ("you know of what I speak", referring Gandalf to the Eye of Sauron). Just a minor annoyance, really. I must be in the majority, but I quite enjoyed her transformation. She looked regal and positively dangerous; it was interesting to see what she would look like had she stretched out her hand to the One Ring and set herself up as the Power over Middle Earth, and contrast this with her normal self, Galadriel.

"To bear a Ring of Power is to be alone" didn't really make sense to me. None of the bearers of the Three are alone, are they? Even Thráin had his son Thorin. Maybe she meant that to bear the Ring of Power was to be alone? However, I did like "even the smallest person can change the world" (have I got that right?), since it seems to be one of the main themes of the book and the movies.

I was pleased to see the gift giving added in the EE, although Sam's rudeness in asking for "one of them swords" was really grating. Whatever happened to:

Farewell to Lórien

Sam went red to the ears and muttered something inaudible, as he clutched the box and bowed as well as he could.

Saruman and Lurtz may have been a gratifying scene for those who love to see our delightfully evil villain, but now that it comes down to it, I wonder how the movie would have been if the identity of the orcs was a mystery, as in the book? I mean not only their creation, but their owner? So that Aragorn and co have to piece it together from the evidence: the white hand and the S-rune.

I don't think we really needed to see Saruman instructing his new creation in the origins of orcs. But, whatever, the scene was okay so no real complaints from this corner.

And that's my two cents on FOTR Sequence 12.

[sassyfriend]

Only time I liked Galadriel is when she smiled other then that I didn't really like her at all. I totally agree that Aragorn wasn't friendly at all towards Boromir. But I do recall seeing him grin when Boromir and his little ones were wrestling with each other and i adore that moment.