LotR1-FotR-Seq12

[Essex]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

He's the "Commander-in-chief" of Gondor's forces, the one that leads them. He's going back to Minas Tirith because it's his duty to defend his country and lead the army, not just simply like..."Ok guys I don't feel like going any further with you, I'm going home."

So why did he leave Gondor's defences for a couple of hundred days cos he had a Dream about 'some bint with a Scimitar' (whoops, wrong film) - I mean a dream about a Broken Sword? His brother said he'd go to Imladris, but Oh No, our Commander in Chief reckons it's much more imoprtant to travel a few hundred leagues (and get lost in the process!!!!) than to protect his City........

And then his poor brother gets it in the neck for his stupidity in trying to take the Ring.

Some people may be aware that I'm not a Boromir Fan..........

[Elladan and Elrohir]

Well, Essex, in the movies he leaves home because Daddy orders him to go get the Ring.

Boromir88, I'm not saying that Boromir is not honorable or heroic. I'm just saying I think Aragorn is more so.

It's interesting because Aragorn is going to almost switch roles in TTT. He'll go to being the more heroic guy while Theoden sits, stews, and tries to kill Wormtongue.

[Boromir88]

Essex, I will be more than glad to continue the debate in PM (or even in a new thread?) if you wish, but I think the discussion will veer too far off track from the purpose of these Sequence-by-sequence threads. As one, we are getting away from the actual movie, and two getting ahead of ourselves and not even on the right sequence anymore. Which again, was probably my fault.

Boromir88, I'm not saying that Boromir is not honorable or heroic. I'm just saying I think Aragorn is more so.

My mistake, I misread what you intended...it seemed that you simply said Boromir wanted to go home and therefor Aragorn was the more honorable. I just wanted to point out that we have to look at the reasons as to why he wanted to go home.

Ummm, so ya, how about Lorien?

[Boromir88]

Ok, I'm posting again because I forgot something (about Boromir of course) that I didn't mention before.

It's here in Lorien where he opens up to Aragorn and I think accepts him as his King. I know on his deathbed he calls Aragorn his King, but really it's here that he opens up to Aragorn and realizes Aragorn is just like him.

It's interesting to see this change in Boromir because of course when we first meet him he vehemently declares "Gondor has no King. Gondor needs no King." So, he's basically telling Aragorn we don't need you, buzz off. But, in Lorien (and he reiterates this same thing with his dying words) he accepts Aragorn as his brother, his countrymen. It's in his own words...

"My father is a noble man, but his rule is failing and our people lose faith. He looks to me to make things right, I would do it, I would see the glory of Gondor restored...One day our paths will lead us there and the tower guard shall take up the call. The Lords of Gondor have returned."

What gets me wondering is what causes this change in Boromir. He goes from "Aragorn we don't need you" to calling Aragorn a lord, and even later accepting that he is subsequent to Aragorn and Aragorn is "his king." Is it at this point does he realize that he alone can't save Gondor and that they really do need Aragorn? Does he come to realize that his father is failing and his people are losing hope and that afterall Gondor does need a King, they need Aragorn? What causes him to realize this? Is it something that Galadriel showed him? Ahhh, so many questions running through my mind.

[Essex]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

What gets me wondering is what causes this change in Boromir. He goes from "Aragorn we don't need you" to calling Aragorn a lord, and even later accepting that he is subsequent to Aragorn and Aragorn is "his king."

This scene jarrs with me for some reason. I can't really put my finger on it, and don't know why it is though. Perhaps because of the change of heart from boromir, and I can't see a reason for it.

I think Jackson puts it in here though to set us up for his fall. Making him a more sympathetic character, and also giving a path towards him accepting Aragorn as his King and Captain when he dies.

Yet another proof towards how TIGHT and well conceived the PLOT Tolkien's LOTR is. Make one small change (my captain / my king) and you set dominoes falling (this time backwards in time) and so have to set up the situation beforehand.

I can see VERY few plot holes in Tolkien's written work, but many in Jackson's. This is basically because he changed some plot lines, sometimes VERY small, but they have larger consequences further on.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

I'm reminded of the thread Why Does Aragorn Let Frodo Go? Sure Aragorn would have been a help, but his task was different from Frodo's. Frodo's was to destroy the Ring and the Fellowship was around to help him for as much or as long as they could. Aragorn didn't go with Frodo (this of course being from the movie), because he had duties elsewhere, the more urgent one being making sure Merry and Pippin

Good point. This is one book/movie difference of importance. And
as noted above, there are other differences, usually to the
movies disadvantage, an exception is PJ's depiction of Boromir,
except- to me- of the absurd Boromir virtual acknowledgment
of Aragorn as king, which he would never have done (not only
as the Steward's son and presumptive heir but also in his role
as chief military lieutenant under Denethor- even under
bizzarly dorky movie Denethor) without the
agreement of the Steward.

[alatar]

By the by, no problem with the Aragorn/Boromir discussion in this thread, as I may have been the one who started it in the first place. Let's just try to draw from the sequence at hand or those preceding for examples when making a point - except when I just can't help myself and jump ahead a movie or two .

Anyway, just wanted to point out that in this sequence, Boromir does not acknowledge Aragorn's kingship, which he does just before his death in Sequence 13. How he decides that Aragorn would be a "Lord of Gondor," I don't really get, and so can only speculate. Up to this time in the movie, the only thing that Aragorn has done on the plus side was to save Boromir's life in Moria. Yes, Aragorn leads them all into Lothlorien, but to me that's not enough to change Boromir's mind regarding this Ranger. Could it be that Boromir, in his despairing, wants Aragorn to be the saviour that he and his people have sought? Think about it: Boromir is trying to bring aid to his city, and sees the Ring or the Ranger as two possible solutions.

He's drowning, and so grasps at any hope. Aragorn has no siren song, and actually has stated that he doesn't want the responsibility. The Ring, on the other hand, assures Boromir that it can can bring victory. Boromir knows that the Ring might be lying, but he's still not sure. Galadriel most likely inflames the concern in Boromir's heart, and she may have made him even more desperate.