Public Research: Religion - What Confession Do You Belong to?

[HerenIstarion]

Verily it has been written:

Originally Posted by HerenIstarion

restrict to issues like whether Tolkien’s work has more or less meaning for you because of your faith

Has your faith grown in meaning to you because of Tolkien? is also of interest.

As for confessional deviations within single or between different systems of belief, these may be discussed only in the form supplementary to the main course of discussion.

[edit] Also, if some suddenly, to their great surprise no doubt, find themselves in breach of given guidelines, there is no need to apologise/explain in the thread, just post on topic and go on with it [/edit]

Thanks

[Lalwendë]

Tolkien's work has pretty much been a constant in my life ever since I began pondering more metaphysical matters - until then I just went along with what was on offer, which was going to Sunday School and listening to the people around me. After I found Tolkien was about the time I started to make my own mind up, something I was more or less encouraged to do anyway.

I had C of E parents, a mother who does believe in God, a father who wants to but says that really he can't - he seems to like churchgoing more for the social aspect, haranguing vicars about the existence of aliens, and some kind of sense that the steady, conservative (with a very small C, as his politics are anything but big C) England of the 1950s has not entirely gone away. His father was CofE but never went to church, his own creed being more political and left wing; his mother was brought up Catholic, and after marrying my grandfather gave it all up publicly but never really did in her heart - my childhood was somewhat afflicted with her visions of a cruel God who might smite me at any moment. My father once 'had words' about her allowing me to read a Catholic catechism filled with concepts I did not understand. My mother had a CofE father and a mother who was disowned by a catholic family. I also had Methodist (one a Welsh great-great grandfather who was a Methodist preacher who refused to learn English) and Jehovahs Witness relatives. My RS teacher was a Quaker who said "Jesus was a Communist" and taught us to challenge our own pre-conceptions. I've also learned Tarot from a woman who learned it from her mother (and so on backwards), have studied astrology and wicca and have learned about shamanic practices. So really I've no reason to favour any religion over another.

Like a lot of people, not long after reading Tolkien my interest was stirred in mythology, I developed a keen sense of the environment around me and then coupled with the left-leaning politics I had also developed an interest in, I rejected my own religion. I do have to say that Tolkien was a pretty big catalyst in my becoming an atheist, and what he would have to say about that I do not know. I saw a keen moral sense of right and wrong in his work, but I did not see that it was anything to do with God.

After many years I have explored all kinds of ideas, and have decided that I'd rather there be a world with God than without, but I do not follow set creeds as they aren't for me. I suppose my strongest influences are Socialism, Paganism and Christianity. What I see in Tolkien's work is a world where there is God, and where there are right and wrong things to do, but which is not governed by churches or specific religions and their associated divides. It's a world where the individual must think for themselves about what is right and wrong, and where even the seemingly terrible person can be forgiven. Strangely, given Tolkien's Catholicism and his (small c) conservative leanings (yet spiced with a hint of anarchism) I find his world to be presented in a not dissimilar way to how I see it.

I think given that we have so many readers here who are from such different faith (and otherwise) backgrounds and yet who all respond to Tolkien's work so deeply, his own personal faith cannot be written in big bold letters across his work. If it was, then wouldn't some of us be repulsed by what we read? I think Tolkien tapped into something far greater than individual religions.

Are there specific things which people of certain beliefs find they can't agree with in Tolkien? If there are, then maybe his work is not all that universal, but as it happens I think our personal religious or otherwise beliefs are not that relevant in whether we enjoy his work or not.

[Nogrod]

[QUOTE=HerenIstarion]Verily it has been written:


Has your faith grown in meaning to you because of Tolkien? is also of interest.

As a sort of a person I am, I will gladly stick to Aiwendil's definition:

"I'm probably what most people would call an "atheist", or perhaps a "secular humanist". If I had to pick a term to describe myself, it would either be "rationalist" or simply "non-religious". I favour the formation of opinions based only on reason and empirical evidence. Inasmuch as "atheist" really means "a-theist", "not a theist", it adequately describes me. In fact, one might go so far as to say that I'm an "antitheist" - I am not only not religious; I am opposed to religion as an institution (though of course I'm tolerant of those who practice religion, just as I'm (I hope) tolerant of all those who have different opinions)."

What has Tolkien, then, given me in terms of religion, worldview, or philosophy of life? First thing that I can recall dates a long way back to my childhood. As a 10-year old, I was quite impressed to hear, that Tolkien had used a lot of scandinavian and even finnish mythology to build his stories & languages. If that kind of writer thought these stories worthy enough to be mentioned and even applied as buildingblocks on his magnificient world, then they must be worthy stories as such! So the stories of my forefathers had a place in the world of mythology, they were equals with the others (by that time I propably knew only the stories of the jews, greeks, some of the romans + arthurian legends).

So confidence and some pride of my own modest backgrounds at that age.

Later I have found an intresting point of view, by looking at the stories from the virtue-ethics perspective. Even though one cannot deny the aspect of the morals of duty (deontological ethics) in the moral focus of Tolkien, his conservatism leads, in many instances, to ideals like valor, bravery, justice, but also to friendship, loyalty, generosity, kindness & forgivennes (quite christian these two last ones as opposed to the classical pagan virtues listed here otherwise, I admit), to be brought in the forefront as ideals to be followed. That has left me wondering, how one could be virtuous in a culture where virtues are no longer shared or ackonwledged?

PS. I totally agree with Anguirel, that Lewis was not a fanatic. Sorry about my bad choice of words (even though, I just said that he was more fanatic than Tolkien, which in this case is not to have said a lot... ). You are propably also quite right about Tolkiens' condemnation about Lewis' work, the aesthetics were at least as important to Tolkiens dislike of preaching. Maybe the worst thing in them was their kind of postmodernism: just taking bits and pieces of "soundbites" from here and there to make a melange (Father Christmas in Narnia!!!) of sorts, not justified with a poetic truth of a grand idea.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

A bit more time, so I will add a few thoughts.

I really don’t think that Tolkien’s work has had any bearing on my religious life or other than in some respect validate some values I hold, (and that my culture possibly had been letting slip). That being said, it did strike a chord in me, a very full and beautiful one, and as it happens, it seems to evoke quite a few of the same feelings as my faith. So I will say that one bolsters the other to an extent.

But you have me wondering if the same sorts of people who are interested in thinking about religious subjects, are interested in Tolkien’s work because they are drawn to the beauty (or potential beauty) and complexity of both.

[Mithalwen]

Hmm .. raised Anglican (baptised and confirmed), both parents Anglicans who went to Catholic schools (father's family originally Irish Catholics) which had a lasting effect and high church (Anglo-catholic) leanings which they passed on to me. My mother had a simple faith which she kept til her death my father I think likes the ritual but is probably near agnostic. Basically we went to church but were not especially involved or devout. My mother was keen that we were confirmed so we "belonged" and then it was up to us. After I was confirmed at 12 I did start to believe properly and this coincided with my first Tolkien phase. Iwas very involved with my church and choir in Paris (Anglican) and chapel at Oxford (methodist ecumenical)... but various things caused my faith to fail and the manner of my mother's death finished it. Just afterwards the films came out and I got into Tolkien again.

I don't disbelieve in God - I just can't believe he cares so I am a somewhat regretful agnostic. I would like it to be true and can almost believe when I hear Handel or Bach.... but there is a lot about the church I am glad to be away from.... If I were choosing religion from scratch - well Judaism seems life affirming and has appealed but there is the basic God problem.

SO I have loved Tolkien as both a committed Christian and as an Agnostic - make of that what you will.


At least ticking other means I don't have to decide the Anglo-Catholic thing...

[Durelin]

I was raised Catholic, with both my parents being Catholics, though my mother was never confirmed. I remain a Catholic, and have no reason to break any ties with the Church, even though my 'religious philosophy' strays rather far from Catholicism in some cases. Indeed, I am discovering that quite a number of my beliefs correspond with Buddhist philosophy in reality. I've been an altar server for six years now, and I could probably say the Mass myself, but I still haven't felt the need to give it up.

As for my faith growing in meaning to me because of Tolkien...it did. Good, immersive reads such as Tolkien's works have helped me establish what are new philosophies to me that I never would have learned in Bible school, or in my current theology class. The Silmarillion was particularly inspiring for quite a few different looks at creationism. Rather than my 'beliefs' being what I learned simply from instruction in a Catholic upbringing, even though there is nothing wrong with those beliefs, I went further, and began to consider my own views without any guidance, except maybe inadvertantly from Mr. Tolkien. Of course, we are always deciding what we think of things as humans, establishing our own opinions, but further and deeper than that are the fundamental questions that we try to answer. When we really try to answer them for ourselves, then our faith is truly meaningful to us. For me, I may have decided that some Catholic doctrine just doesn't work for me, but I also 'connected the dots,' if you will, discovering why I believe the things I do as a Catholic, or not as one. And I will never feel that I must leave the Church because of any differences.

[Roa_Aoife]

I voted Protestant, but I believe this is a bit of a misnomer. I am infact a Non-denominational Christian, as I feel denominations make things too poltical. Also, I follow a Post-modern theology, which is fairly disconnected from older versions of Christianity, which don't really relate well to today's culture. I would not call myself a Protestant, except to say that I am not Catholic or Orthodox.

[mormegil]

I voted other. Though I am Christian I do not believe I fall into any of the aforementioned categories. I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I was born and raised as such. My parents were fairly active but not overly devout. I however, since late teenage years, have been devout and my life is defined, to a degree, by my religion. My wife is also a member of the same faith.

As for my reading of Tolkien affecting my religion I would say no, but rather my religion affects my reading. I am able to read his works and find thoughts or ideas that closely parallels my own theology and belief system and there are some that do no reconcile. However, I do no discard as worthless and feel that I can learn from all great works, be they fiction or not.