LotR1-FotR-Seq12

[alatar]

I'm with you on this one, Essex, regarding Cate and the temptation.

Lothlorien, however, was just too dark - not meaning evil - but just dark. Even in starlight elves and their homes should appear magical - otherworldly - and to me PJ just made it look like some part of Moria with better-lit stairways. Again I think that showing Lothlorien would be a real chore, and so no slight to PJ, but I just didn't like the scenery.

No "Wow!"

[drigel]

Lorien was one of my favorite parts of LOTR. And that does make me a bit more ciritcal of the scene in the movie. That being said, I understand with what PJ said in the commentaries about how he wanted to display in Lorien the more dark and dangerous side of elves, as opposed to what was shown at Rivendell. But the subtely was lost in the effort. With the exception of the EE scene of Caras Galadhon, and then at the depature, it was always night time there, ugh.

Blanchet did well. I felt as though she really understood the character, but...

Quote:
She lifted up her hand and from the ring that she wore there issued a great light that illuminated her alone and left all else dark. She stood before Frodo seeming now tall beyond measurement, and beautiful beyond enduring, terrible and worshipful.

I can see why Jackson went the way he did. It's a great cinematic moment, perfectly showing Galadriel's power and temptation

With all the magical special effects and CG in these movies, I was most disappointed in that scene. It looked way to cheesy for me. Almost circa 1978 technology, with that negative image look to her. If you refer to that quote in the book, well then for me:
tall - mabye
beautiful - NO
terrible - YES
worshipful - NO

[alatar]

After listening to the "The Bridge of Khazad-dûm" chapter this morning, it struck me regarding why I don't like this Aragorn.

In the books, Aragorn is the pupil of Gandalf. During the FotR's journey from Rivendell to Moria it is Aragorn and Gandalf that take council together, and even when they would disagree it is amicable. Aragorn is concerned, not by the dark road through the Black Pit, but for Gandalf's well-being. And this is what struck me: When leaving his mentor behind in Moria, Aragorn salutes his fallen companion with Anduril before turning towards Lothlorien.

PJ's depiction of Aragorn doesn't demonstrate a relationship with Gandalf. We don't have two intertwined fates, just two parallel lives. Aragorn wants to get rid of the failed human race - Ring stigma (and win Liv, of course ), and Gandalf wants to help the hobbits and the other free folk by ridding ME of the Ring and subsequently Sauron. There is no connection between the two, and they are companions by chance and need.

There's no wizard's letter at Bree mentioning Aragorn, nor does the Grey Pilgrim state that he has traveled with Aragorn before, like when they searched for Gollum. PJ's Aragorn, then, cares not so much for Gandalf, and when the eight arrive outside the gates of Moria, he is simply ready to journey forth. Boromir, on the other hand, is shown to be more sympathetic, if not towards the wizard, with whom he had openly argued, then to his followers, like the hobbits (sword training, "give them a moment" outside Moria, and telling Frodo not to carry the death of Gandalf too).

This Aragorn may not try to claim the Ring, but other than that, what does he have over Boromir?

[Essex]

aragorn does not have Bormoir's:

Petulance - in thinking he is always correct and disagreeing whole heartedly with members
of the fellowship - e.g. everyone at the Council / Aragorn on the river Anduin

Childishness - e.g. acting like a child in Lothlorien as he has his view of Galadriel and will stick to it!

Condescending tone - e.g. rubbing frodo's head like a child when giving the ring back

Blinkered view - e.g. a warrior's point of view - For Gondor! for Gondor! For Gondor!

Level of temptation - e.g. Boromir's failed attempt to wrestle the Ring from Frodo

and so on and so forth.

I agree about the point of Aragorn's relationship with Gandalf not being focused on. Bring
on my 52 hour mini series to allow us to see this relationship!

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by alatar

This Aragorn may not try to claim the Ring, but other than that, what does he have over Boromir?

A total lack of charisma.

Of course, this is propably not a PJ choice only. Sean Bean just beats Viggo by 100% with stage presence, being believeable and real...

The problem with Aragorn in the movies may also be due to the inwardness of the screenplayed character. Aragorn seems merely to wrestle with himself and with his relationship with Arwen (even this too, is more about his solitary fight, not something where Arwen actively takes part- and that of course is going back to Tolkien and the weak role of women in the story), not with the real characters he is being in dealings with.

[Essex]

this may be due to the fact that Bean has 'better material' to play with in LOTR

1- temptation by the Ring - in the Council and especially on the mountain when he holds the ring.

2- a Death Scene - EVERY ACTOR WORTH HIS SALT CRIES OUT FOR A DECENT DEEATH SCENE!!!!!!!

Now for Viggo, his acting in LOTR is basically done through his 'emotion' - ie

1/ after gandalf falls - his shocked look as the arrows fly around him
2/ his view of lothlorien and the joy it holds for him
3/ the marvellous view as he walks towards the multitude of orcs after letting Frodo go

but to add to this - his acting in Bree, especially

1/ when he drags in frodo to his room - I know what hunts you!
2/ when he describes the nazgul and Sauron the Deceiver to the hobbits
is excellent.

I'm only dragged out of middle-earth occasionally by these 2 when their accents fail -

for aragorn - funnily enough at bree when he mentions Sauron the deceiver above - his voice drifts back to a mid atlantic accent

but boromir wins hands down as he cavorts back to his Sheffield accent when on Caradhras - we should take the road to my CITEH! (instead of city!!!)

[alatar]

And that's another point: Aragorn, as we will see in the next sequence, salutes the orcs (I will have a note regarding how he says this word, and how it is received on boths sides of the Atlantic) before he starts slaughtering them. He salutes the shards of Anduril, nods at Boromir after spearing the orc with a thrown sword, salutes the Nazgul (I think), nods to Galadriel, etc.

But no nod or salute for the Balrog-bane! Do these two even know each other?

Hope that you see my point.

And Essex (and others), why do you suppose that Aragorn is portrayed thus? I not going to concede 'material' yet. Was Boromir's part enhanced as his was the shortest for the trilogy? Is Sean Bean just 'better' at getting what he wants out of the script/script writers? Or did PJ want to make Boromir a more sympathetic Judas-goat whereas Viggo's one note is to be 'from rags to riches'?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by alatar

And Essex (and others), why do you suppose that Aragorn is portrayed thus? I not going to concede 'material' yet. Was Boromir's part enhanced as his was the shortest for the trilogy? Is Sean Bean just 'better' at getting what he wants out of the script/script writers? Or did PJ want to make Boromir a more sympathetic Judas-goat whereas Viggo's one note is to be 'from rags to riches'?

I would firstly vote for Seans' superior presence, but would readily admit, that Mr. Bean had a better-built role with better chances of being credible. So, who knows?

Surely Boromir has been symphatized, a little bit at least. Although I'm not sure, which one has the more sympathetic look on him, Tolkien or Jackson. But a big difference comes with Aragorn - as has been eloquently argued on this discussion. I would just continue with my less eloquent babbling about Aragorns' inwardness in the movie. His real battles are inside him, so what the actor can actually do to express this, is mainly to stare half-focused to somewhere and look serious - shedding an occasional tear every once in a while. Not so much great drama, but succesful idols-posturing? Shouldn't blame Viggo, though. He did his best, I suppose. A Great Actor might have some other options, at least with a help of A Great Director, of course, but...