What does the sixpence = ? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

littlemanpoet · 01-08-2006, 09:11 PM

Translation broadens our topic. Perhaps it is not language. But I recall that Tolkien was generally displeased with many of the translations into other languages because the translators thought they knew so much and actually knew so little, which drove JRRT to distraction.

Still, to the degree that the translations are true to Tolkien's careful word choices (not to mention all the other aspects of story), LotR seems to reach down to something that contemporary novelistic fiction can't touch. Myth made applicable to people now.

On page 221 of Author of the Century, Shippey relates Northrop Frye's five literary modes:

myth - the characters in a work are 'superior in kind both to other men and to the environment of other men' ... the 'hero is a divine being and the story about him will be myth'
romance - characters are superior only in 'degree (not kind) to other men, and again to their environment'
high mimesis - (tragedy or epic) - where the heroes and heroines are 'superior in degree to other men but not to natural environment'
low mimesis - level of the classical novel - characters are on a level with us in abilities, though maybe not in social class
irony - we see ourselves looking down on people weaker or more ignorant than us

LotR, according to Shippey, functions at all levels at different times, depending upon the purpose at a given point in the story. This gives it scope such that it can deal with issues in a way that a story written in only one of the five modes, cannot.

So think of these characters, and think about what mode(s) s/he is written at:

Gandalf
Samwise
Frodo
Saruman
Sauron
Aragorn
Boromir
Gaffer Gamgee
Tom Bombadil
Elrond
Eowyn
Faramir
Denethor
Theoden

What's the point? Maybe this is a little bit of the sixpence, and maybe this helps explain why contemporary literati simply can't get their minds around what LotR is doing.

01-08-2006, 09:11 PM	#9
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Translation broadens our topic. Perhaps it is not language. But I recall that Tolkien was generally displeased with many of the translations into other languages because the translators thought they knew so much and actually knew so little, which drove JRRT to distraction. Still, to the degree that the translations are true to Tolkien's careful word choices (not to mention all the other aspects of story), LotR seems to reach down to something that contemporary novelistic fiction can't touch. Myth made applicable to people now. On page 221 of Author of the Century, Shippey relates Northrop Frye's five literary modes: myth - the characters in a work are 'superior in kind both to other men and to the environment of other men' ... the 'hero is a divine being and the story about him will be myth' romance - characters are superior only in 'degree (not kind) to other men, and again to their environment' high mimesis - (tragedy or epic) - where the heroes and heroines are 'superior in degree to other men but not to natural environment' low mimesis - level of the classical novel - characters are on a level with us in abilities, though maybe not in social class irony - we see ourselves looking down on people weaker or more ignorant than us LotR, according to Shippey, functions at all levels at different times, depending upon the purpose at a given point in the story. This gives it scope such that it can deal with issues in a way that a story written in only one of the five modes, cannot. So think of these characters, and think about what mode(s) s/he is written at: Gandalf Samwise Frodo Saruman Sauron Aragorn Boromir Gaffer Gamgee Tom Bombadil Elrond Eowyn Faramir Denethor Theoden What's the point? Maybe this is a little bit of the sixpence, and maybe this helps explain why contemporary literati simply can't get their minds around what LotR is doing.