LotR1-FotR-Seq10

[Elladan and Elrohir]

Well, you're right about that, alatar, and maybe some of this discussion should be saved for when we actually get to Lorien, but when Galadriel says that, we've only seen one character show attraction to the Ring. That would be Boromir. I think they could still have her make some kind of allusion to it, without actually coming right out and telling Frodo "He will try to take the Ring." There's no suspense in it at all for me. Of course, I'd already read the books, so I knew that Boromir was going to anyway. But still, even if the blinders are still pulled over your eyes when Galadriel says that, your suspense will be gone when Boro says "None of us should wander alone" on Amon Hen. The only suspense you have left is will he succeed. So I think it could have been handled a lot better.

[alatar]

My point, in regards to the whole movie and not any individual sequence or even 'third,' is that in no way is PJ subtle. Nor can he resist adding the Gotcha! surprises for both reading and non-reading audience members. I'm starting to see more patterns, and with the knowledge now that he only did LotR in order to do King Kong in a big way, I would say that PJ had not the love that we here have for the material and only saw it as a vehicle to other ends.

[Essex]

Unfortunately, and this is not a go at ANYBODY, but these movie chapter by chapter discussions have finally joined all of the other movie discussions and are mainly an area for us to say what was wrong with the movie.

Yes, now and then people explain what was good about the movies (the music or the scenery mainly!) but then move onto their discection of the movie and why it failed compared to the book.

This is people's right and their honest opinions no doubt. But it grates with me that the vast majority of people here just talk about the negatives of the movies. It is a real pity.

Let me clear a few things up - my opinions:

1/ The movies will never be as good as the books.
2/ but the films are the best 3 movies ever made. period.
3/ a film cannot be all things to all men (unless it's written verbatim from the book - the clsoest I've seen is Shawshank Redemption - but then this is an ABRIDGED version of the book)
4/ PJ has a GREAT love of this book - You can see in the 10 years or so of effort he put into making the movie
5/ To say PJ wrote LOTR movie to 'get' King Kong made is like saying Tolkien wrote LOTR to get the Silmarillion published. Any less love for LOTR? NO!!!!!
6/ People always see the negatives in things first
7/ PJ deserved every single Oscar he achieved for these films, including the scriptwriters award for ROTK

I wonder if anyone here has heard of the saying 'Cut him some slack'.............

[Lathriel]

Well, Essex you certainly voiced my opinion. In my posts I try to be positive although I can't always help but to point out things that were nagging me.

I forgot to mention in my earlier post that I really liked the ruins the fellowship walked past. It shows some more history of ME and it is mentioned in the book that they walk past ruins when they are in the land of Hollin.

[Boromir88]

1/ The movies will never be as good as the books.

Very true.

2/ but the films are the best 3 movies ever made. period.

I would disagree, but that's your opinion and the purpose isn't to argue whether these movies are the best or not.

3/ a film cannot be all things to all men (unless it's written verbatim from the book - the clsoest I've seen is Shawshank Redemption - but then this is an ABRIDGED version of the book)

Of course not, Tolkien admits them himself, which is one of his biggest reasons he didn't think his books could be turned into movies. But, I think it would have helped if meaningless scenes were cut leaving more time to explain things left out. Again, the Boromir example (and some other ones that I will probalby harp about later), we already see him being corrupted, we already know his feelings, why continue to beat it into our heads? Though I do agree with Elladan and the rest of you, in that I think this scene is a lot better, and works a lot better than Galadriel telling us what's gonna happen.

It's not differentiated scenes from books and movies that irk me, as we know whenever any movie is made from a book Hollywood has to morph and dramatisize everything. Again, it's meaningless added scenes.

4/ PJ has a GREAT love of this book - You can see in the 10 years or so of effort he put into making the movie

Sometimes I question this, but there's no doubt he put a lot of money, time, and effort into making these movies. Though this is expected from any director who is making a movie.

6/ People always see the negatives in things first

Again you hit the nail on the head.

7/ PJ deserved every single Oscar he achieved for these films, including the scriptwriters award for ROTK

I actually think the movies deserved more oscars, especially for it's acting. I really thought Sean Astin was going to win for his performance in ROTK, I still think he should have.

Unfortunately, and this is not a go at ANYBODY, but these movie chapter by chapter discussions have finally joined all of the other movie discussions and are mainly an area for us to say what was wrong with the movie.

What's wrong with that? My understanding of these discussions was to critique the movie. And not critiquing by just saying the positives, or by just throwing the excuse of "well it's different in the books." But, discussing what was possibly wrong, what could be better, and how could it be changed to make it better. Which, I think we have been doing great job at doing all that. I didn't think this sub-forum was created just so we could praise how great Jackson was. It's a look at the movies from the movie perspective instead of doing the same old, Tolkien wrote it differently.

Believe it or not I think FOTR was the best made of the three, so it will only go down hill from here (atleast from my rantings). But, of course Jackson does great things, as far as filming, scenery, score, he uses some Hitchcock tactics, he makes good use of camera work (which I think I've pointed out atleast one on every sequence-except this one ) And mastered drawing comparisons with his characters with the use of similar and identical snapshots.

[alatar]

Apologies to Peter Jackson and other readers regarding my post about he only doing LotR to enable him to make King Kong. This may or may not be true, but as I haven't been able to source the material (yet!?!), I humbly withdraw the comment.

Did hear it on the television, but that would be considered hearsay.

And we would have to assume, for the man to dedicate so much time and effort to bringing LotR to the scene that he must have some love for the Books.

Again, I apologize for any disparaging comments, implied or inferred.

However, some of the changes that he made for whatever reason, may indicate that he does not treat the Books as sacredly as I .

And in regards to negativity...please. My hope for the SbS is to understand PJ and why decisions were made. He can (and does) take whatever liberties that he would like with the source material - hey, it's his film - yet I may have done things differently and, more importantly, would prefer that PJ be consistent with his presentation.

Anyway, for example, is it 'piling on' to suggest that PJ diminished the role of Frodo? Or added scenes just to add some thrill at the expense of character development?

And I'm still intrigued about the apples .

[Essex]

Boromir

It's a look at the movies from the movie perspective

And there's the Rub.....

This is what they are. Movies. Totally different medium to a book. Unless you have a narrator reading out directions / characters thoughts / explaining times when the characters are telling others what has happened.

take for example the council of Elrond - I believe this would take at least half an hour to run through word for word - It can't be done in a 3 hour movie.

now a mini series that has all (or most) of the text could work.

And, as I've stated many times before, LOTR was not made for us geeks who hark on about how different it is to the book or what colour hair legolas has. It was made for the masses. Not us.

Though this is expected from any director who is making a movie.

What. 10 year's worth of effort? I think not!!!!!

Alatar,

Anyway, for example, is it 'piling on' to suggest that PJ diminished the role of Frodo?

Every character will be diminished when you take 54 hours of source material and condense into 8.5 - 11 hours