Tol-in-Gaurhoth XV-The Villagers Strike Back! - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Farael · 12-21-2005, 03:02 PM

Morm, Morm... are you a eager wolf or a cunning Hero? I must say I did not suspected you until today but am I the only one to notice a shortcoming in your plan? what if one of the heroes said to be Sauron? it would be a risky act, but would you risk devouring the true Sauron? even if it is a 50% chance, with only one hero left he/she could meassure his/her time and play it safe. Without Sauron we would have no way of knowing who the hero is but to have him/her make a mistake and he/she could easily attack Dragulin the first night and avoid Carcharoth so that he/she does not get accidentally killed. Your idea is noble indeed but too risky, not only for the gifteds who I'm sure are willing to risk their lives for the rest of us, but for all of us werewolves, warg and man. If we manage to get another hero, then we should consider that plan again, because it would be suicidal for the hero to pretend to be gifted.

Also, keep in mind that this sneaky hero could easily say he dreamt about Dragulin, Rune and anyone else and that he/she knew their roles. How are we going to tell it's a lie if the gifteds come out?

To explain my vote for spawn as I don't want to make myself more suspicious to those who already suspect me, I still believe that there is at least one hero in the Nonna bandwagon and I am not suspecting Boromir as much as before.

Regarding to-nights suspicions I shall think some more about them. I realize I'm walking the thin edge and I don't want to make you devour an innocent man just by mistake.

WaynetheGoblin · 12-21-2005, 03:23 PM

Werewolfs take the lead yae it looks like menel is innicent for being first to vote for rune i think the heros might of gone for him. i do not suspect kath as much now i didnt know that was the reason she didnt vote on night 1.that is all i have to say good bye.

Mithalwen · 12-21-2005, 03:27 PM

Farael - you get more suspicious by the second.
Some of us have already pointed out flaws but this is unlikely I feel. It is harder to claim to be Sauron than any other gifted. Sauron has more knowledge than anyone at this point. Anyone claiming to be Sauron tonight has to fake 3 dreams that are plausible with their voting and posting. I personally am not certain of the Dark Lord's identity and will not speculate since you can all read as well as I.

But at the moment I must say, you are heading up my hit list , Farael.

You have consistently attracted much suspicion - no smoke without fire?

mormegil · 12-21-2005, 03:47 PM

I would welcome the hero being stupid enough to claim to be Sauron. The point is we will loose Sauron soon enough, if this is done, and the Hero will identify him/herself for us. Then we'd be down to one Hero and many known innocent. The idea of the double devouring each day is to kill unknowns faster than the Hero can kill known innocents and we win! However, I agree with Mith those comments of yours moved you up to very high on my list. I say that Farael and Gurthang our the Heros.

The key to my plan is Sauron. He/She knows how much or little he/she knows currently. So if Sauron were to step forward perhaps all gifteds should comply as well. I don't think it will happen today but tomorrow would be ideal. The only problem is what if the Heros get Sauron tonight. A lot of information could be lost. I leave it in Sauron's hands to decide what is best.

Edit: 2000th post

Boromir88 · 12-21-2005, 05:10 PM

I've been scrounging through the records these last days and something with Gurthang just doesn't sit right with me now. Day 1 he randomly votes Rune (which I think everyone's votes early on are pretty much random...if not all the time, it just seems like we're lunging into the dark and hoping our claws find threachurous blood). Anyway, Day 1, Gurthang tosses out a vote for Rune for some reason.

And, what about this, I'm actually going to agree with Nonna's Post 81 where he marks this as odd and just seems like a throw away. Gurthang's reason for voting for Rune (as he explains it), was first he doesn't mind bandwagoning, he doesn't see a problem in it, but he doesn't join in he just throws out a vote. His vote seems like...

1) A hero that doesn't want to get his sword dirty in an innocent's death. Knowing that if he tagged a long it would seem like "bandwagoning" and also he would get his sword fresh with innocent wolf blood.

2) By voting for Rune, if Rune every happens to by eaten (which is the next day as we see) he atleast looks semi-safe. Gurthang's vote was a safe move for a hero to make and I now have my eye set upon him.

Despite my actually agreeing with Nonnacedak it doesn't make him seem any better to me, but Gurthang has quickly moved up my list.

I may be in the minority here, but to me Farael's post really doesn't make him seem more suspicious, it actually seems to be in good intentions and a reasonable question. Of course it would be hard and actually rather stupid for a hero to claim to be Sauron. However, we know how us wolves are in situations like this, when we're attacking villages. I've seen fellow wolves pull off successful disguises of being a gifted. Though it results in their own death eventually, a good guise as a gifted is able to draw them out and get them killed in the process, also just establish total chaos and confusion in the village. So, I don't see why Farael pointing out additional faults in Morm's plan makes him look more suspicious, I actually find it as a reasonable logical thing to point out. What if a hero tried to claim to be Sauron? Grant it, the hero would most likely seal his/her own fate, but a successful attempt could bring out the gifteds and get them killed in the process, as well as split the pack in two and cause chaos.

So my updated, adjusted suspect list, in no particular order:

Nonnacedak
Gurthang
Spawn
Eomer

Nonnacedak · 12-21-2005, 05:29 PM

At the moment Gurthang is definatly moving up my suspect list. I still suspect Dancing Spawn but because of recent posts I am leaning towards Gurthang. Like I said and B88 reiterated his random switch from me to Rune at the very beginning looks like he was trying to do a quick Hero cover at the beginning by starting a vote for a fellow Hero.

Now B88 you were the only person to vote for me last voting round and you are constantly putting me at the top of your suspect list. You do this but you really never say why I'm your main suspect.... Since your the only one that suspects me and you always just put my name and never try to prove that I'm a Hero I really shouldn't care to much. I guess your just baffeling me.

Gurthang · 12-21-2005, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nonnacedak

At the moment Gurthang is definatly moving up my suspect list. I still suspect Dancing Spawn but because of recent posts I am leaning towards Gurthang. Like I said and B88 reiterated his random switch from me to Rune at the very beginning looks like he was trying to do a quick Hero cover at the beginning by starting a vote for a fellow Hero.

Now B88 you were the only person to vote for me last voting round and you are constantly putting me at the top of your suspect list. You do this but you really never say why I'm your main suspect.... Since your the only one that suspects me and you always just put my name and never try to prove that I'm a Hero I really shouldn't care to much. I guess your just baffeling me.

First off, I'll explain my first day vote. Which probably won't make any difference.

Glirdan had four votes. I didn't suspect him, but I had no reason not to, either. So I just said the bandwagon was fine with me. I had mentioned Nonnacedak early, and this is why you are questioning me. Was it not because you are a scavenger that I questioned you? I accused you for your occupation, as many do on the first day. We really have nothing to go on then, so we randomly accuse and gauge reactions. Nothing about your reaction stuck out to me, so I let it go. Now, since then I have noticed scraps here and there against you (so you are wrong saying Boromir is the only one to suspect you.). Notice that the same has happened to Farael; early I was worried about him(don't know if I posted saying so or not), but found that it was just for him being a werewolf-in-denial. Since I have become suspicious for other reasons.

So, when it came time that I had to vote, I really had nothing. So, rather than not vote or vote for someone who already had votes who I did not suspect, I quickly thought of anything that I could use as an excuse to vote for someone. I remembered Glirdan mentioning Rune's confusing post (which had slightly confused me, also) and so I used that. I jumped on the first thing that came to mind, so if that's a cop-out, then I'm guilty of it.

Now I'm really getting uneasy about all these people suspecting me. Morm and Oddwen have put forth good reasons and are making sense to me (despite being wrong), so I don't hold that against them. Boromir, I'm not sure, he's got a valid point in his post, but I almost feel like he's jumping out because of the other two. Nonna has come out again (he's suspected me before) but he's been silent about me for awhile, and I really feel like he's just coming back now that there's more support against me.

I'm still leaning on Farael, and Nonna is really close up there, too. I'll try to glance through the thread before Night ends, but I'll most likely vote for one of them.

Meneltarmacil · 12-21-2005, 07:59 PM

Well, what can I say? There's some evidence for Nonnacedak and Gurthang turning up that I'll have to look into, Nonna may actually be looking a little more suspicious than spawn right now.

However, I'm going to stick to my guns and vote

++Farael

12-21-2005, 03:23 PM	#2
WaynetheGoblin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: far far away Posts: 275	Werewolfs take the lead yae it looks like menel is innicent for being first to vote for rune i think the heros might of gone for him. i do not suspect kath as much now i didnt know that was the reason she didnt vote on night 1.that is all i have to say good bye. __________________ if your happy im happy if your sad im sad if you jump of a cliff i watch

12-21-2005, 03:27 PM	#3
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	Farael - you get more suspicious by the second. Some of us have already pointed out flaws but this is unlikely I feel. It is harder to claim to be Sauron than any other gifted. Sauron has more knowledge than anyone at this point. Anyone claiming to be Sauron tonight has to fake 3 dreams that are plausible with their voting and posting. I personally am not certain of the Dark Lord's identity and will not speculate since you can all read as well as I. But at the moment I must say, you are heading up my hit list , Farael. You have consistently attracted much suspicion - no smoke without fire? __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

12-21-2005, 03:47 PM	#4
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,651	I would welcome the hero being stupid enough to claim to be Sauron. The point is we will loose Sauron soon enough, if this is done, and the Hero will identify him/herself for us. Then we'd be down to one Hero and many known innocent. The idea of the double devouring each day is to kill unknowns faster than the Hero can kill known innocents and we win! However, I agree with Mith those comments of yours moved you up to very high on my list. I say that Farael and Gurthang our the Heros. The key to my plan is Sauron. He/She knows how much or little he/she knows currently. So if Sauron were to step forward perhaps all gifteds should comply as well. I don't think it will happen today but tomorrow would be ideal. The only problem is what if the Heros get Sauron tonight. A lot of information could be lost. I leave it in Sauron's hands to decide what is best. Edit: 2000th post __________________ “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” Last edited by mormegil; 12-21-2005 at 03:53 PM.

12-21-2005, 05:10 PM	#5
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	I've been scrounging through the records these last days and something with Gurthang just doesn't sit right with me now. Day 1 he randomly votes Rune (which I think everyone's votes early on are pretty much random...if not all the time, it just seems like we're lunging into the dark and hoping our claws find threachurous blood). Anyway, Day 1, Gurthang tosses out a vote for Rune for some reason. And, what about this, I'm actually going to agree with Nonna's Post 81 where he marks this as odd and just seems like a throw away. Gurthang's reason for voting for Rune (as he explains it), was first he doesn't mind bandwagoning, he doesn't see a problem in it, but he doesn't join in he just throws out a vote. His vote seems like... 1) A hero that doesn't want to get his sword dirty in an innocent's death. Knowing that if he tagged a long it would seem like "bandwagoning" and also he would get his sword fresh with innocent wolf blood. 2) By voting for Rune, if Rune every happens to by eaten (which is the next day as we see) he atleast looks semi-safe. Gurthang's vote was a safe move for a hero to make and I now have my eye set upon him. Despite my actually agreeing with Nonnacedak it doesn't make him seem any better to me, but Gurthang has quickly moved up my list. I may be in the minority here, but to me Farael's post really doesn't make him seem more suspicious, it actually seems to be in good intentions and a reasonable question. Of course it would be hard and actually rather stupid for a hero to claim to be Sauron. However, we know how us wolves are in situations like this, when we're attacking villages. I've seen fellow wolves pull off successful disguises of being a gifted. Though it results in their own death eventually, a good guise as a gifted is able to draw them out and get them killed in the process, also just establish total chaos and confusion in the village. So, I don't see why Farael pointing out additional faults in Morm's plan makes him look more suspicious, I actually find it as a reasonable logical thing to point out. What if a hero tried to claim to be Sauron? Grant it, the hero would most likely seal his/her own fate, but a successful attempt could bring out the gifteds and get them killed in the process, as well as split the pack in two and cause chaos. So my updated, adjusted suspect list, in no particular order: Nonnacedak Gurthang Spawn Eomer __________________ Fenris Penguin

12-21-2005, 05:29 PM	#6
Nonnacedak Animated Skeleton Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Utah Posts: 44	At the moment Gurthang is definatly moving up my suspect list. I still suspect Dancing Spawn but because of recent posts I am leaning towards Gurthang. Like I said and B88 reiterated his random switch from me to Rune at the very beginning looks like he was trying to do a quick Hero cover at the beginning by starting a vote for a fellow Hero. Now B88 you were the only person to vote for me last voting round and you are constantly putting me at the top of your suspect list. You do this but you really never say why I'm your main suspect.... Since your the only one that suspects me and you always just put my name and never try to prove that I'm a Hero I really shouldn't care to much. I guess your just baffeling me. __________________ NonnacedaKKadecannoN

12-21-2005, 03:02 PM	#1
Farael Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: In hospitals, call rooms and (rarely) my apartment. Posts: 1,538	Morm, Morm... are you a eager wolf or a cunning Hero? I must say I did not suspected you until today but am I the only one to notice a shortcoming in your plan? what if one of the heroes said to be Sauron? it would be a risky act, but would you risk devouring the true Sauron? even if it is a 50% chance, with only one hero left he/she could meassure his/her time and play it safe. Without Sauron we would have no way of knowing who the hero is but to have him/her make a mistake and he/she could easily attack Dragulin the first night and avoid Carcharoth so that he/she does not get accidentally killed. Your idea is noble indeed but too risky, not only for the gifteds who I'm sure are willing to risk their lives for the rest of us, but for all of us werewolves, warg and man. If we manage to get another hero, then we should consider that plan again, because it would be suicidal for the hero to pretend to be gifted. Also, keep in mind that this sneaky hero could easily say he dreamt about Dragulin, Rune and anyone else and that he/she knew their roles. How are we going to tell it's a lie if the gifteds come out? To explain my vote for spawn as I don't want to make myself more suspicious to those who already suspect me, I still believe that there is at least one hero in the Nonna bandwagon and I am not suspecting Boromir as much as before. Regarding to-nights suspicions I shall think some more about them. I realize I'm walking the thin edge and I don't want to make you devour an innocent man just by mistake.

12-21-2005, 07:59 PM	#8
Meneltarmacil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The bottom of the ocean, discussing philosophy with a giant squid Posts: 2,254	Well, what can I say? There's some evidence for Nonnacedak and Gurthang turning up that I'll have to look into, Nonna may actually be looking a little more suspicious than spawn right now. However, I'm going to stick to my guns and vote ++Farael __________________ I ♣ baby seals.