Tolkien over others

[ohtatyaro]

It seems real. I mean I don't doubt reading others that what they have written is fiction. With Tolkien it is not hard to think there really was Aragorn, and Rivendell and so on.

[Cailín]

Discuss what makes Tolkien's a better writer over others.

I've read the works of David eddings and read a few chapters of WOT. I found neither as good or compelling to read ( and re-read) as the works of Tolkien's.

I understand what you mean here, but can you honestly analyze and discuss why Tolkien is a better writer after having only read two other fantasy works (and by writers I for one don't hold in high esteem)?

It's all a matter of personal preference anyway. The things you list are valid points, but I find Jack Vance's names very appealing as well and I love the language use of T.H. White almost as much as I love Tolkien's. Though Tolkien probably has created the most detailed world and no one has yet equaled the attention he gave to history and languages, George Martin is another writer who really manages to make a world both rich in wonder and very believable at the same time. Tolkien might have been one of the first who used the plot of an innocent little farmer's boy (because that's basically what Frodo is as well) who - through some harsh twist of fate - has to save the world, but it is not an original idea either. So I guess the question should really be why do you like Tolkien more?

I'd personally recommend all the authors I have mentioned above, by the way.

[Gothmog]

It's somewhat unfair to compare the work of Tolkien with anything else. No-one comes close to his achievements!

I find myself drawn into a world described beautifully and detailed. A world where all the stories is connected and where there is an explanation behind most things. There is no other world ever created that is as complete as the world of Tolkien. There's not only one language, there's at least two (Quenya and Sindar) created specially for Middle Earth. Plus there's fragments of Adunaic, Dwarven speech, the toungue of Rohirrim and the dark language of Mordor. And that's only one example of the diversity and wealth of details in this world.

There's a complete story of creation, a well developed mythology with "gods" at least as living as the roman or norse. And the history, from the creation to the War of the Ring, is almost as comprehensive as the history of our real world. As soon as a character in LotR mentions an old legend or hero, or even sings a song, there's a story behind it. Aragorn isn't thinking Beren and Luthien up, they're real and there's a story as complicated and rich as any legend in our world. If an elf sings about events in some distant land and time, it's all there in Silmarillion, or UT, or BolT or.... That immense and thrilling world leaves me wanting more and more. One can't get enough! And that's why were all here, to get more of this fantastic world that we all share. No other writer can challenge Tolkien on that point, creating a world that feels more real than my own history.

But I really enjoy Eddings too! He succeeds in a thing Tolkien does not (criticizing prof T? Unbelieveable! Hope you can forgive me sometime) and that is making his characters personal. Tolkien's story (-ies) is an epic one and nothing beats it's complexity. But the characters feel a bit unpersonal, at least according to me. But they do not have to be personal, it's not that kind of story. Sure, you're worried the hobbits are in danger, and sure you can feel the love between Sam and Frodo but it still feels distant.

Eddings' characters on the other hand feels like a group of close friends. I can't resist to smile when Silk makes a joke, or feel the embarrassment of Garion in some situations, or the strange love between Belgarath and Polgara etc... When I finish the books it feels like I've lost contact with some of my dearest friends. And yes, it's sad when LotR ends too, but not in the same way. Even my sister, who is not interested in fantasy at all, have read The Belgariad with much enthusiasm.

I have to say that I enjoy the two book series about Belgarion more than those of Sparhawk, so the views above concern mainly those books.

WOW, that became one long post, even if it wasn't my intentions. A little defence for Edding, but in no way any hard critic of Tolkien, whom I still consider number 1. Nothing can compare to his work, even if I enjoy the personal touch of Eddings' characters.

J. R. R. Tolkien is more than just a philologist and a fantasy writer.
To be perfectly honest with you, my fellow Barrow-Downers, he is like a father to me.
Despite the fact that I was born fourteen years after his death, I somehow feel that he is really here, teaching me the lore of life. I have never really understood the majesty of Sub-creation till after I came across him. As a devoted æsthete myself, I support his æsthetic and religious wisdom - his profound love for Art.
His way of expressing it is simply unmatched.

The moment I started reading The Lord of the Rings some years ago, I felt a revelation - something eerie stirred within my mind and heart, telling me that something remarkable is come.
After completing the Appendices, I longed for the events of the First Age. So not long afterwards, I received The Silmarillion. And my love-affair with Fantasy Literature shone in full glory, like the light of Telperion and Laurelin. And my primary hobby shifted from Drawing (which is now my secondary activity) to Writing.
He is the reason for the Fairy-stories I am working on.

After The Silmarillion, I managed to gather almost everything involving Tolkien. The books, the essays and the letters, I have read them all; and I say proudly that John Ronald Reuel Tolkien is an example I follow, and will continue to follow.

[Boromir88]

There are a couple things Tolkien does that stands out from other authors that I've read.

At this current time, I'm actually not reading any Tolkien, I'm reading The Chronicles of Narnia (for the first time). I finished The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe and am about to start Prince Caspian. Now I enjoyed reading C.S. Lewis, but I just didn't get the same feel as when I read LOTR. Maybe it would have been better if I read it when I was a kid, but to me The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe just seemed childish. Before that, I read The Hobbit (for the first time), and though that's a book for "children" it really didn't seem childish. When I read LOTR, though it is a fantasy, it just seem real, and seems like something that's believable. The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe just didn't seem real.

There is this certain characteristic of a book called plausibility...does the story make sense, is the story believable? Not even believable in our own world, but believable within the book. When I read TLTWTW, in Narnia I just got a sense that anything can happen and certain things seem unbelievable, it's like Lewis' characters are superhumans and can withstand anything.

When I read LOTR, though there is "magic" in the stories, and certain characters seem unstoppable, everything and everyone has limits. NOTHING or NOONE is all-powerful/superhuman (besides Eru)...even the Ring can be defeated. Gandalf can't sit their and launch 50 fireballs, he gets tired, he gets physically worn down. Everything has limits. When I read The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, I just didn't get that feeling of plausibility that LOTR has.

Another thing I think Tolkien works well with, and one of my biggest attractions to books (as well as movies) are the characters. Tolkien gives all of his characters a mind of their own. He reiterates it in a letter that I forget, I'll see if I can find it when he's talking about Treebeard, in that that's Treebeards opinion on why trolls were created "in mockery of ents" and that isn't necessarily the truth but Treebeard's own opinion. In Tolkien he gives each of his characters their own minds and their own personalities.

For example, I'm going to take Hama and Beregond. Both of whom are servants/guards of their lords. However, despite being guards, they aren't like the typical "guard of a lord" which are mindless robots that say "yes master." They are both able to judge for themselves what the right thing to do is. Though an order was made that Gandalf had to set aside his staff, Hama made up his own mind and through his own judgement let Gandalf in with his staff. Beregond I hope I really don't have to explain, he disobeys his lord, kills people just to save the Captain who he is so fond of. Everyone in Tolkien has a mind of their own and are able to make their own decisions...again not being mindless robots..."Yes lord."

Anwyay, those are the things that I think puts Tolkien above other authors I have read.

[narfforc]

One of things I find remarkable about The Works Of Tolkien, is their depth. Pick up LotR and turn to any page, and I am willing to bet, that most names of people or places have a history. They do not just appear, there is a link to something else somewhere. There are also mysteries of people or places mentioned, that we can only imagine and discuss on these very pages. The other houses of the Dwarflords, those not of Durins Line, the other Istari, there are so many more things we could have been told, and our hunger burns. I think for me also, I see LotR as one of those stories that could easily fit in the gap between Legend and Myth. It is almost semi-believeable, one would not be amazed if Arthur or CuCulainn appeared followed by Merlin and Angus Og. Many people on a subliminal level recognise this link to our own history of storytelling, and Tolkien has been rightly called The Last Bard. The story Tolkien has created is probably the last great story ever told, and as much as people try and imitate (pick the names yourself), the efforts are but weak copies in many cases. I called this A Never Ending Story because I believe it is, I have read countless stories of The Fourth Age, of obscure times and people, written by people like us for people like us (no harm in that). It is through us this story will continue and grow. To say that the works of Tolkien are engraved in my being is an understatement, I feel nothing like that for any other written word.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by narfforc

The story Tolkien has created is probably the last great story ever told, and as much as people try and imitate (pick the names yourself), the efforts are but weak copies in many cases. I called this A Never Ending Story because I believe it is, I have read countless stories of The Fourth Age, of obscure times and people, written by people like us for people like us (no harm in that). It is through us this story will continue and grow. To say that the works of Tolkien are engraved in my being is an understatement, I feel nothing like that for any other written word.

Oh my gosh, narfforc, for a moment there I thought you had LotR confused with that Biblical epic The Greatest Story Ever Told but then I realised you meant simply that it is the last great one written. I sure wouldn't think Tolkien would like any graven images made of his work.