What if??

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Farael

Morgoth could not create, only corrupt things. So I guess either dragons already existed and he used them for his own means or that there were things like dragons which he perverted into things like Smaug.

It could be that the dragons were corrupted by Morgoth, as their origins are unknown beyond that they emerged from Angband. They could have been extant creatures, corrupted to his needs, but we do know that Morgoth 'bred' dragons. Smaug is said to have been the greatest of his kind so he could have been one of those bred by Morgoth or a descendant of them.

It's worth bearing in mind that Sauron followed Morgoth and so may indeed have had much knowledge of dragons and how to control them - maybe with gold . In any case it is clear that Gandalf believed him to be a significant threat, so we can assume that he at least suspected Sauron would be able to control Smaug.

[Nerindel]

While I do not believe that Sauron could have fully controlled Smaug willingly, I do believe he could have tricked or manipulated the Wyrm through his greed and Vanity, after all was this not how Bilbo tricked the old boy into giving him a second glance of his jewel encrusted 'waistcoat', revealing to him the dragons only weakness.


I believe that Sauron could and would have made promises to Smuag that his greed would not and could not resist, after all was this not Saurons art to take such weaknesses and twist and manipulate them to his will.

[Farael]

I must say I agree with Lawende and Nerindel when they say that Sauron could have tempted Smaug to do his bidding yet I don't think he could have controled Smaug for too long. Sooner or later, either Smaug would ask too much from Sauron or perhaps Sauron himself would feel he did not need Smaug anymore and try to get rid of him.

Tricksy, these evil creatures are

[Nerindel]

I think Smaug's own pride and sense of superiority would not allow him to be controlled by others not even Sauron, but I do believe that feeding his greed with promises of riches and perhaps even the northlands themselves Sauron could thus manipulate the dragon to his will, elimanating any threat from Rivendell or perhaps even Lorien. This to me would be the threat Gandalf feared. However the flaw in this plan would be if Smaug happened upon the ring a trinket I do not think he would give up willingly and then Sauron himself would be forced to destroy the Wyrm and take the ring.

Yet Smaug knew that Bilbo was there.

It was only the Wrym's heightened sense of smell and hearing that led him to know that Bilbo was there, even wearing the ring. But still he could not see him. so really it is irrelivent how quiet or sneaky Bilbo was if the Wyrm was awake he would smell him, like many real life predatory animals of today.

"Well, theif! I smell you and feel your air. I hear your breath. Come along! Help yourself again, there is plenty and to spare!"

And as for Morgoth not being able to create Dragons I'm not entirely convinced If we can dismiss this possibility? For if Aule could make the dwarves and Yavanna the ents, then is it not then pausible that Morgoth could have created the dragons?

[Farael]

Originally Posted by Nerindel

And as for Morgoth not being able to create Dragons I'm not entirely convinced If we can dismiss this possibility? For if Aule could make the dwarves and Yavanna the ents, then is it not then pausible that Morgoth could have created the dragons?

Actually, Aule made the dwarves but they did not have a conscience of themselves until Eru himself gave them one. Before that they were just outgrowths of the conscience of Aule. The Ents were trees (created by Yvanna) given a soul by.... I can't remember right now but I would guess Eru again?... so neither of the Valar created life by themselves. And of course, it is quite unlikely that Eru would have helped Morgoth create the Dragons.

[Nerindel]

Hmm off course, good point Farael. So that leads me back to the thought that Morgoth possibly could have twisted and corrupted the dragon's already given life by Eru, like Lalwendë Suggested.

It could be that the dragons were corrupted by Morgoth, as their origins are unknown beyond that they emerged from Angband. They could have been extant creatures, corrupted to his needs, but we do know that Morgoth 'bred' dragons. Smaug is said to have been the greatest of his kind so he could have been one of those bred by Morgoth or a descendant of them.

[bilbo_baggins]

Well who's to say that Eru picking sides? I'm not claiming to be rooting for Melkor or anything, but if Eru gave life to Aule's creation and Yavanna's creation, why not give life to Melkor's creation? The Dwarves you will remember, play an enormous, fate-of-the-world changing role in Middle-Earth. So why can the Valar have all the abilities to affect all life? I think Melkor created Dragons from scratch, and that somehow he gave them life.