What if??

[Farael]

Originally Posted by bilbo_baggins

I think that the Ring would not affect Smaug as much as you might think. After all, Smaug's confrontations with Bilbo proved that he could not easily be wiled and fooled

I'm not sure that Bilbo would have been able to fool the Witch King, Galadriel, even Argorn.... They are all very smart and mentally strong people yet they did suffer ringlust.

[bilbo_baggins]

Originally Posted by Farael

I'm not sure that Bilbo would have been able to fool the Witch King, Galadriel, even Argorn.... They are all very smart and mentally strong people yet they did suffer ringlust.

But the Hobbits had inherent sneaking abilities. In his forward "On Hobbits" Tolkien describes how they can hide themselves, be unseen, and be quieter than air. Is this not fooling capabilities? Yet Smaug knew that Bilbo was there.

[Farael]

Originally Posted by bilbo_baggins

But the Hobbits had inherent sneaking abilities. In his forward "On Hobbits" Tolkien describes how they can hide themselves, be unseen, and be quieter than air. Is this not fooling capabilities? Yet Smaug knew that Bilbo was there.

I think that refers to the Hobbits being able to sneak making very little sound, a physical skill yet creatures like Smaug, The Witch King, Galadriel or Tom Bombadil had a different kind of 'perception'... for example, Tom can see Frodo even when he's wearing the ring, so we see that they see the world differently. I don't think it's the same to be able to sneak by than to have a strong mental precense

[bilbo_baggins]

Will we know have to get into a discussion of what Tom Bombadil is? Tom is the eternal LoTR exception in my mind. Dragons were actually created by Morgoth. How could they be even as powerful?

[Farael]

Originally Posted by bilbo_baggins

Will we know have to get into a discussion of what Tom Bombadil is? Tom is the eternal LoTR exception in my mind. Dragons were actually created by Morgoth. How could they be even as powerful?

Morgoth could not create, only corrupt things. So I guess either dragons already existed and he used them for his own means or that there were things like dragons which he perverted into things like Smaug.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Farael

Morgoth could not create, only corrupt things. So I guess either dragons already existed and he used them for his own means or that there were things like dragons which he perverted into things like Smaug.

It could be that the dragons were corrupted by Morgoth, as their origins are unknown beyond that they emerged from Angband. They could have been extant creatures, corrupted to his needs, but we do know that Morgoth 'bred' dragons. Smaug is said to have been the greatest of his kind so he could have been one of those bred by Morgoth or a descendant of them.

It's worth bearing in mind that Sauron followed Morgoth and so may indeed have had much knowledge of dragons and how to control them - maybe with gold . In any case it is clear that Gandalf believed him to be a significant threat, so we can assume that he at least suspected Sauron would be able to control Smaug.

[Nerindel]

While I do not believe that Sauron could have fully controlled Smaug willingly, I do believe he could have tricked or manipulated the Wyrm through his greed and Vanity, after all was this not how Bilbo tricked the old boy into giving him a second glance of his jewel encrusted 'waistcoat', revealing to him the dragons only weakness.


I believe that Sauron could and would have made promises to Smuag that his greed would not and could not resist, after all was this not Saurons art to take such weaknesses and twist and manipulate them to his will.