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Old 12-04-2005, 11:20 PM   #1
the phantom
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My first thought here is that Smaug's will is his own and would not be held under Sauron's sway...
I'm not so sure.

Gandalf says this in UT, The Quest of Erebor-
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The Dragon Sauron might use with terrible effect. Often I said to myself: 'I must find some means of dealing with Smaug.'
Gandalf thought Sauron would be able to "use" Smaug.
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Old 12-04-2005, 11:43 PM   #2
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I see your point but Sauron also thought he used Shelob but he didn't control her, so my point remains valid if it is seen that Smaug is his own master. Using a creature like that can be unpredictable.
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Old 12-05-2005, 12:41 AM   #3
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I'm inclined to agree with mormegil here. While, as the phantom points out with that quote from UT, Smaug could be used by Sauron, the control Sauron would have over him IMHO would be very limited- like Shelob, as astutely pointed out by morm.

I suppose the same thing may be said of the Balrog of Khazad-Dum also; if Sauron tried to persuade Smaug or the Balrog to his service, they would probably start out by following his instructions, yet Smaug's desire for gold and riches and the Balrog's desire to....kill....would in the end overcome their 'servitude' to Sauron and they would serve only themselves, destroying for pleasure. Not that this is totally out of line with Sauron's desires- only they probably wouldn't completely obey all his desires.
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Old 12-05-2005, 10:26 PM   #4
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Now as for an Eagle taking on a dragon there is no competition, a dragon is much greater
Actually the eagles fought the winged dragons in the War of Wrath, so I think it is entirely possible that the eagles would be able to fight with a dragon, maybe not one on one but certainly with a group of them.

I don't think Sauron would have been able to completely control Smaug even with the ring, but they certainly would have come to an agreement and worked together, with Sauron perhaps allowing Smaug to control some land in the north, as there Smaug could have destroyed the last elven realms there such as Rivendell.
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Old 12-06-2005, 10:48 AM   #5
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Yes, the Eagles would have been greater in those days but they could probably challenge Smaug if they fought together.

I don't think Smaug's fire would have been hot enough to destroy the One Ring (if any Dragon's fire ever could have).

Was the initial post asking what would have happened at the Black Gate? If so, more Eagles would have died (possibly) but it would have had no effect on Frodo's quest. Unless Sauron convinced Smaug to guard Mount Doom. That could be an idea.
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Old 12-06-2005, 10:58 AM   #6
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I don't think Smaug's fire would have been hot enough to destroy the One Ring (if any Dragon's fire ever could have).
I don't have time now but remind me to check tonight. I'm almost sure that in The Fellowship of The Ring, either when Gandalf throws the Ring to Frodo's fire or when, at Elrond's council they talk about destroying it, someone (probably Gandalf) says that the fire of the dragons might have been able to, but there are none left.
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Old 12-06-2005, 11:10 AM   #7
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I'm almost sure that in The Fellowship of The Ring, either when Gandalf throws the Ring to Frodo's fire or when, at Elrond's council they talk about destroying it, someone (probably Gandalf) says that the fire of the dragons might have been able to, but there are none left.
I believe Gandalf observes that not even Ancalagon the Black
could have destroyed the One Ring.
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Old 12-06-2005, 11:16 AM   #8
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That would be an interesting scenario...I imagine that Sauron (if he couldn't "control" Smaug) would at least try to make an ally of him. Rather like Morgoth and Ungoliant joining up to take down the Two Trees, each had something the other could profit from.

Hmm...maybe instead of just sending the Nazgul, Sauron could have sent Smaug to the Shire and laid it to ruin and then searched for the Ring in the ashes. Gandalf feared for Rivendell from the Dragon, I doubt the Shire could hold up longer than that.

But does Ringlust take hold on dragons, aside from their love of gold in general?

Very interesting thoughts.
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