Stupid Elf Tricks... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Anguirel · 11-30-2005, 01:03 PM

It's not Legolas' portrayal in the films that has distorted him somewhat irreparably for me. Rather, it's the reaction of filmgoers to the onscreen Legolas; and here I would class the contortions of Legolovers and purists as equally damaging, really.

Admittedly, film-Legolas for me was a good deal less than perfect. But as he was my favourite character when I first read the book at the age of six, that was always going to be rather difficult. I was annoyed by the blonde wig (Legolas is obviously dark) and the loss of the incredibly moving Sea-Longing scenes, but not to the point of delirium, foaming at the mouth etc.

No, what was dreadful was when it became clear that everyone had noticed Legolas. That they were either singing his praises or ripping him to pieces in berserk rage. Mud stuck on two sides; the fangirls were idolizing a simpering yellow-haired luvvah who quickly began to overlap with Orlie himself; the sceptics were yelling hackneyed and irritating names like "Captain Obvious!" and telling long, boring jokes about Legolas' shampoo supply.

Between them they ruined his gravitas. I began to realise I would have difficulty taking Legolas seriously again. That the Elf who fought perilously and wept into the sea was being forgotten. The mob had surrounded Legolas like a group of small boys fighting over a toy, and torn him to pieces...

And Mith, with respect, I'm sure Polynesians have been surfing away since 5000 BC, but I know and you know that the filmmakers don't care less about that aspect. They're aiming to suck up to skaters, and that does worry me a little. But it's a minor point, and really I believe, as I say, that the fans-aye, that we-are to blame for the defamation of poor old Leggy.

(Every time you say Leggy, another piece of Legolas' integrity dies...)

Mithalwen · 11-30-2005, 01:48 PM

Well I had the horror of my elder sister who had sneered at my Tolkien obsession throughout my adolescence suddenly getting interested because she liked Orlando Bloom ... I mean how ghastly is that? At her age it practically counts as a midlife crisis....grrrrrrrrrrrr Orlando Bloom is harmless enough. The role has brought him fame disproprotionate to his ability but such is the way of the world. He is not my vision of Legolas (who was a favourite of mine too when I first read the book) so I have filtered him out.... you will get him back. The book Legolas is still whatever he was. In my opinion virtually all the characters were demeaned in the film in relation to their book - if you think Legolas is hit hard, think about poor Elrond whose nobility and sacrifice is transformed in to a petulant MD and slightly creepy Dad... or Faramir..... PJ's vision doesn't have to destroy yours... I know have a composite in my head comprising of my own imaginings, Tolkien's picture overlapped with favourite aspects of the film and radio..... Personally I resent these scenes not because of Legolas's tricks - I thought the Troll chain walk was an acceptable sub for Legolas's running a rope across the Celebrant- but because they were overlong and left less time for character development.

For the surfing I merely attempted to provide factual information .... however I found the Gimli related incidents more intrusive and disrupting to the "suspension of disbelief" ("nobody tosses a Dwarf " etc....)

Anguirel · 11-30-2005, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

if you think Legolas is hit hard, think about poor Elrond whose nobility and sacrifice is transformed in to a petulant MD and slightly creepy Dad... or Faramir.....

Actually, I didn't mind either of those cases nearly so much.

With Elrond I suppose it's because I was never as interested in him as I was in Legolas (until I read the Silmarillion and decided I was Maglor reincarnated, anyway...), as lots of my Elrondite friends felt his altering keenly.

But with Faramir, aside from the slightly ridiculous plot-holes caused by the Nazgul sequence, I had few problems, because I felt Wenham was a good actor who was deling with a character inside the appropriate culture. Indeed, in TTT EE and ROTK I could find no faults with him, and enjoyed every second he was on screen. Oh for more Houses of Healing scenes with the goddess Miranda...

Legolas felt...rather jarringly modern in more ways than skating, and reading interviews with Orlie didn't help. It's a problem he has in Kingdom of Heaven too. He couldn't be less "mediaeval"...

Roa_Aoife · 11-30-2005, 03:50 PM

Yes, Faramir was rather demeaned in the movies. But there are whole other threads on that, I'm sure.
Anguirel makes a good point. I admit that it become much easier to find fault with him after the raving fan girls started. It was sort of a knee jerk reaction for fan girl/boy haters, such as myself. (Really, people, the Capt. Obvious joke is overdone. For heavens sake, lets remember the audience this was directed at. Not everyone might have gotten the point. And it happened once, that I'm aware. Hardly condeming.)

My only true" beef" if you will is with the Oliphaunt, the stair surfing, and the horse trick, the last of which couldn't make up for itself with even looking cool. At least the first too had the initial, "Woah, I wasn't expecting kick*** moves like that," before the, "Wait a minute, what is he, Tonk Hawk?"

Also, if anyone here saw Disney's Tarzan, that part where our loin-clothed hero slides through the tree branches looks remarkably like the Oliphaunt trunk-sliding Legolas. That sequence, according to the artists, was speciffically designed to look like surfing/skating. Coincidence? Most likely, but you never know.

Essex · 11-30-2005, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anguirel

But with Faramir, aside from the slightly ridiculous plot-holes caused by the Nazgul sequence

Sorry can't help myself get dragged into a faramir argument. What plot hole? I'm all for pointing out plot holes when they happen in the movies (the power of the Ring etc) - bur movie Faramir SHOT DOWN the fell beast and the nazgul (that's why there were only 8 at the gates of mordor later on) - so he didn't go back to report to his master. and shortly afterwards Pippin loks into the Palantir and BANG there's the halfling with the Ring for Sauron to concentrate on.........

Also, as PJ said in the EE comentary, they were transposing the scene from Minas Morgul to Osgiliath (you know, where Frodo is tempted to put on the Ring by the Witch King as he sets off to War) - so not TOTALLY sacrligeous to the story............

anyway, don't mind me, let's get back to the Leggy bashing....................

Gurthang · 11-30-2005, 07:49 PM

I actually agree about Faramir. I hate the way he is so different from the book, but looking at the movie alone, I think he is rather consistent, and would have really enjoyed his character, had I not known book Faramir already.

Truthfully, the shield surfing did not bother me. I thought it was actually quite cool. The reason that the horse-jump is just so physically and anatomically impossible that it makes me groan. The mumakil scene didn't bother me so much initially, except when he slides down the trunk and has the hideously smug look on his face. I can't even explain why, but it just infuriates me to no end. The only relief is Gimli's hilarious reply.

Anguirel · 12-01-2005, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essex

Sorry can't help myself get dragged into a faramir argument. What plot hole? I'm all for pointing out plot holes when they happen in the movies (the power of the Ring etc) - bur movie Faramir SHOT DOWN the fell beast and the nazgul.

He shot down the beastie; we know from Gandalf's comment to Legolas in FOTR that that does not kill the rider...but I agree, we're off-topic.

Lalaith · 12-01-2005, 11:57 AM

Essex's initial point is excellent. It doesn't matter if things in the films are silly in the context of our real world, what matters is if they are convincing in the context of the cinematic Middle Earth.
There were things about the films that bugged me deeply but Legolas' action tricks (and Legolas in general) were certainly not among them. I wasn't crazy about the horse-jumping but that was because I thought it looked badly done, technically speaking: it seemed blurred and jumpy. The troll-killing Gurthang points at was a bit blurry too, as I remember.

The shield-surfing looked convincing however, and was actually one of the best bits in TTT, as far as I was concerned. A bit of crowd-pleasing fun which was genuinely funny, as opposed to the demeaning belching routine inflicted on Gimli, which I hated. I didn't think the surfing was "modern," in fact it was rather sweetly old-fashioned, cinematically speaking. Orlando Bloom isn't really an "actor", he's more in the old-school matinee idol mould, like Douglas Fairbanks and Errol Flynn, and his stunts are just part of that tradition.
(Unlike young Mr Bloom who is lucky enough to live an age of computerised assistance, Douglas Fairbanks had to do it all himself: his trademark stunt was descending a curtain or ship sail by putting a sword into it and hanging on as it cut downwards. The sword was secretly bolted into a sliding mechanism behind the fabric, but still, it was an extremely difficult and dangerous trick to manage...)

Reg Pither · 12-05-2005, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lalaith

The shield-surfing looked convincing however, and was actually one of the best bits in TTT, as far as I was concerned.

I didn't realise TTT was that bad!

11-30-2005, 01:03 PM	#1
Anguirel Byronic Brand Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The 1590s Posts: 2,778	It's not Legolas' portrayal in the films that has distorted him somewhat irreparably for me. Rather, it's the reaction of filmgoers to the onscreen Legolas; and here I would class the contortions of Legolovers and purists as equally damaging, really. Admittedly, film-Legolas for me was a good deal less than perfect. But as he was my favourite character when I first read the book at the age of six, that was always going to be rather difficult. I was annoyed by the blonde wig (Legolas is obviously dark) and the loss of the incredibly moving Sea-Longing scenes, but not to the point of delirium, foaming at the mouth etc. No, what was dreadful was when it became clear that everyone had noticed Legolas. That they were either singing his praises or ripping him to pieces in berserk rage. Mud stuck on two sides; the fangirls were idolizing a simpering yellow-haired luvvah who quickly began to overlap with Orlie himself; the sceptics were yelling hackneyed and irritating names like "Captain Obvious!" and telling long, boring jokes about Legolas' shampoo supply. Between them they ruined his gravitas. I began to realise I would have difficulty taking Legolas seriously again. That the Elf who fought perilously and wept into the sea was being forgotten. The mob had surrounded Legolas like a group of small boys fighting over a toy, and torn him to pieces... And Mith, with respect, I'm sure Polynesians have been surfing away since 5000 BC, but I know and you know that the filmmakers don't care less about that aspect. They're aiming to suck up to skaters, and that does worry me a little. But it's a minor point, and really I believe, as I say, that the fans-aye, that we-are to blame for the defamation of poor old Leggy. (Every time you say Leggy, another piece of Legolas' integrity dies...) __________________ Among the friendly dead, being bad at games did not seem to matter -Il Lupo Fenriso

11-30-2005, 01:48 PM	#2
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	Well I had the horror of my elder sister who had sneered at my Tolkien obsession throughout my adolescence suddenly getting interested because she liked Orlando Bloom ... I mean how ghastly is that? At her age it practically counts as a midlife crisis....grrrrrrrrrrrr Orlando Bloom is harmless enough. The role has brought him fame disproprotionate to his ability but such is the way of the world. He is not my vision of Legolas (who was a favourite of mine too when I first read the book) so I have filtered him out.... you will get him back. The book Legolas is still whatever he was. In my opinion virtually all the characters were demeaned in the film in relation to their book - if you think Legolas is hit hard, think about poor Elrond whose nobility and sacrifice is transformed in to a petulant MD and slightly creepy Dad... or Faramir..... PJ's vision doesn't have to destroy yours... I know have a composite in my head comprising of my own imaginings, Tolkien's picture overlapped with favourite aspects of the film and radio..... Personally I resent these scenes not because of Legolas's tricks - I thought the Troll chain walk was an acceptable sub for Legolas's running a rope across the Celebrant- but because they were overlong and left less time for character development. For the surfing I merely attempted to provide factual information .... however I found the Gimli related incidents more intrusive and disrupting to the "suspension of disbelief" ("nobody tosses a Dwarf " etc....) __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

11-30-2005, 03:50 PM	#4
Roa_Aoife Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Someday, I'll rule all of it. Posts: 1,696	Yes, Faramir was rather demeaned in the movies. But there are whole other threads on that, I'm sure. Anguirel makes a good point. I admit that it become much easier to find fault with him after the raving fan girls started. It was sort of a knee jerk reaction for fan girl/boy haters, such as myself. (Really, people, the Capt. Obvious joke is overdone. For heavens sake, lets remember the audience this was directed at. Not everyone might have gotten the point. And it happened once, that I'm aware. Hardly condeming.) My only true" beef" if you will is with the Oliphaunt, the stair surfing, and the horse trick, the last of which couldn't make up for itself with even looking cool. At least the first too had the initial, "Woah, I wasn't expecting kick*** moves like that," before the, "Wait a minute, what is he, Tonk Hawk?" Also, if anyone here saw Disney's Tarzan, that part where our loin-clothed hero slides through the tree branches looks remarkably like the Oliphaunt trunk-sliding Legolas. That sequence, according to the artists, was speciffically designed to look like surfing/skating. Coincidence? Most likely, but you never know. __________________ We can't all be Roas* when it comes to analysing...* -Lommy I didn't say you're evil, Roa, I said you're exasperating. -Nerwen Last edited by Roa_Aoife; 11-30-2005 at 04:47 PM.

11-30-2005, 07:49 PM	#6
Gurthang Sword of Spirit Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oh, I'm around. Posts: 1,401	I actually agree about Faramir. I hate the way he is so different from the book, but looking at the movie alone, I think he is rather consistent, and would have really enjoyed his character, had I not known book Faramir already. Truthfully, the shield surfing did not bother me. I thought it was actually quite cool. The reason that the horse-jump is just so physically and anatomically impossible that it makes me groan. The mumakil scene didn't bother me so much initially, except when he slides down the trunk and has the hideously smug look on his face. I can't even explain why, but it just infuriates me to no end. The only relief is Gimli's hilarious reply. __________________ I'm on a Mission from God.

12-01-2005, 11:57 AM	#8
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	Essex's initial point is excellent. It doesn't matter if things in the films are silly in the context of our real world, what matters is if they are convincing in the context of the cinematic Middle Earth. There were things about the films that bugged me deeply but Legolas' action tricks (and Legolas in general) were certainly not among them. I wasn't crazy about the horse-jumping but that was because I thought it looked badly done, technically speaking: it seemed blurred and jumpy. The troll-killing Gurthang points at was a bit blurry too, as I remember. The shield-surfing looked convincing however, and was actually one of the best bits in TTT, as far as I was concerned. A bit of crowd-pleasing fun which was genuinely funny, as opposed to the demeaning belching routine inflicted on Gimli, which I hated. I didn't think the surfing was "modern," in fact it was rather sweetly old-fashioned, cinematically speaking. Orlando Bloom isn't really an "actor", he's more in the old-school matinee idol mould, like Douglas Fairbanks and Errol Flynn, and his stunts are just part of that tradition. (Unlike young Mr Bloom who is lucky enough to live an age of computerised assistance, Douglas Fairbanks had to do it all himself: his trademark stunt was descending a curtain or ship sail by putting a sword into it and hanging on as it cut downwards. The sword was secretly bolted into a sliding mechanism behind the fabric, but still, it was an extremely difficult and dangerous trick to manage...) __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling