Is Eru God? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Kuruharan · 11-16-2005, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Chicken.

Tis better to be a correct chicken than an incorrect dogmatist (even though I will wildly alternate between conditions from time to time...okay maybe from moment to moment.)

Mithalwen · 11-16-2005, 02:47 PM

I just about agree with Gothmog so won't repeat. If by God you mean a supreme creating being the answer is yes. But if that capitalisation you assign him exclusively to the Christian tradition then no. But personally I think it a little arrogant of the believers to define and lay claim to god (rather like the bacteria in the petrie dish laying claims on the scientist) and so since monotheists by definition believe in one god, that rather implies that Allah, Yaweh and God are one and the same and so the answer is yes.

Eru is really more of a divine clockmaker - sets the thing in motion and watches rather than getting personally involved. Which is more or less my perception of God these days so I could say yes but it is clearly not what Fordim means so it goes back to no...

Fordim Hedgethistle · 11-16-2005, 02:56 PM

And yet, Mith you have failed to put your vote where your mouth is....why the reluctance to weigh in with an actual "Yes" or "No"?

As to your view of Eru as "setting things in motion" without actually "getting involved", how do you explain what happens at Mount Doom when Gollum "slips" into the Fire? Tolkien himself was quite clear (in the Letters somewhere) that there was the direct intervention from 'outside' at that point....

Gothmog · 11-16-2005, 02:59 PM

But Fordim, doesn't your own excellent poll say that Gollum slipped? If we listen to the majority...

Mithalwen · 11-16-2005, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fordim Hedgethistle

And yet, Mith you have failed to put your vote where your mouth is....why the reluctance to weigh in with an actual "Yes" or "No"?

.

Surely it is the most honest and natural course of action for an agnostic?

Folwren · 11-16-2005, 03:57 PM

I voted no, and for those who are keeping close tabs on this - I'm working on my reasons offline.

-- Folwren

Bergil · 11-16-2005, 04:31 PM

To my mind, there are no (or few) "christian morals", or rather, they're little different from everyone else's morals. You do the right thing (because it's right or for a reward CF:Heaven), or you do the wrong thing. In other words, I can't tell whether or not Eru is THAT god or A god, they all look similar.

I didn't vote.

davem · 11-16-2005, 05:20 PM

There's a downloadable issue of Vinyar Tengwar http://www.elvish.org/VT/VT43sample.pdf which contains Tolkien's translations of the Lord's Prayer & the Ave Maria. Tolkien uses 'Eru' to translate 'God'.

For what its worth - Tolkien seems to have considered the two words equivalent - only really stubborn & awkward people would deny that

However, I'm not sure that actually proves anything, or contributes very much...

View Poll Results: Is Eru God?
Yes	43	66.15%
No	22	33.85%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

11-16-2005, 02:47 PM	#2
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	I just about agree with Gothmog so won't repeat. If by God you mean a supreme creating being the answer is yes. But if that capitalisation you assign him exclusively to the Christian tradition then no. But personally I think it a little arrogant of the believers to define and lay claim to god (rather like the bacteria in the petrie dish laying claims on the scientist) and so since monotheists by definition believe in one god, that rather implies that Allah, Yaweh and God are one and the same and so the answer is yes. Eru is really more of a divine clockmaker - sets the thing in motion and watches rather than getting personally involved. Which is more or less my perception of God these days so I could say yes but it is clearly not what Fordim means so it goes back to no... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

11-16-2005, 02:56 PM	#3
Fordim Hedgethistle Gibbering Gibbet Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Beyond cloud nine Posts: 1,844	And yet, Mith you have failed to put your vote where your mouth is....why the reluctance to weigh in with an actual "Yes" or "No"? As to your view of Eru as "setting things in motion" without actually "getting involved", how do you explain what happens at Mount Doom when Gollum "slips" into the Fire? Tolkien himself was quite clear (in the Letters somewhere) that there was the direct intervention from 'outside' at that point.... __________________ Scribbling scrabbling.

11-16-2005, 02:59 PM	#4
Gothmog Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Where I lay my head is home Posts: 421	But Fordim, doesn't your own excellent poll say that Gollum slipped? If we listen to the majority... __________________ Three switched witches watch three Swatch watch switches. Which switched witch watch which Swatch watch switch? He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom ~Lurker...

11-16-2005, 03:57 PM	#6
Folwren Messenger of Hope Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a tiny, insignificant little town in one of the many States. Posts: 5,076	I voted no, and for those who are keeping close tabs on this - I'm working on my reasons offline. -- Folwren __________________ A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. - C.S. Lewis

11-16-2005, 04:31 PM	#7
Bergil Wight Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: the Lepetomaine Gambling Casino For The Insane Posts: 157	My opinion. To my mind, there are no (or few) "christian morals", or rather, they're little different from everyone else's morals. You do the right thing (because it's right or for a reward CF:Heaven), or you do the wrong thing. In other words, I can't tell whether or not Eru is THAT god or A god, they all look similar. I didn't vote. __________________ I support...something.

11-16-2005, 05:20 PM	#8
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	There's a downloadable issue of Vinyar Tengwar http://www.elvish.org/VT/VT43sample.pdf which contains Tolkien's translations of the Lord's Prayer & the Ave Maria. Tolkien uses 'Eru' to translate 'God'. For what its worth - Tolkien seems to have considered the two words equivalent - only really stubborn & awkward people would deny that However, I'm not sure that actually proves anything, or contributes very much... __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."