LotR1-FotR-Seq05

[Essex]

Originally Posted by alatar

No! It's Merry and Pippin trampling though the cornfield. Can't anyone hear? Pippin comes off not only as a thief but also a glutton. No sympathy being generated for this character. And later, when Gandalf hears of this merry meeting as they all are sitting around in Minas Tirith at the beginning of the Fourth Age, he will say surely something like, “and you were meant to crash into Sam and Frodo…” Farmer Maggot as the hand of Eru.

First use of coincidence in the film, as we do not have the Conspiracy unmasked as 1/ Frodo keeps the ring locked away in his chest and 2/ no gap of 17 years for the hobbits to work too much out about the Ring.

We then have four hobbits caterwauling over the hillside, which looked like a cliff but I guess that it really wasn't - as the real fall would have killed them all. Pippin's near miss is a real miss, joke-wise. What is it with PJ, short persons and slapstick?

It’s called lightening the mood and then BAM! PJ heightens the tension straight away with the Nazgul. And this leads onto….

Luckily we get back to some more seriousness as 'something' is coming down the road, as sensed by Frodo

This also shows the more ‘mature’ character of Frodo which a lot of people say is missing in this film (which I disagree with). The other younger hobbits ‘mucking about’ while Frodo stands apart, looking for trouble.

Sam helps Frodo defy the siren song of the Ring, and this puts off the Nazgul somewhat. The pack or whatever thrown by Merry confounds the creature even more...which seems a bit silly.

remember the nazgul could not SEE too well, and used their other senses to compensate didn’t they. i.e. Hearing – so this works fine.

Note to Nazgul: Next time you find yourself spinning in circles trying to figure out which of four hobbits to trample, just behead one (you know how…), and your decision will be simpler. Repeat as necessary.

wouldn’t the nazgul want to take the bearer of the Ring alive, back to Mordor to be questioned/tortured/slowly killed by Sauron?

Now this is nitpicky, but a horse cannot keep pace with hobbits?

Running through trees in the dark, with an almost blind nazgul after them? Sounds feasible to me. And what an amazing shot of the nazgul on the horse bearing down on Frodo as he runs towards the ferry.

And wasn't Pippin paying attention when Frodo said that he was Mr. Underhill? Didn’t they just try to enter Bree stealthily? See what I mean?

yes, and pretty much taken from the book. We had pippin loudly talking about Bilbo baggins’s party – not quite ‘baggins is over there’ but close

But before we see more of Strider, we have to watch Frodo become stupid and twirl the One Ring under the table. Every time Frodo goes hazy I just want to reach out and give him a shake….. But as far as we know, the Nazgul are miles distant, and so what possesses Frodo to act so stupidly?

We need to show Frodo being affected by the Ring, and without a narrator’s voice, how do we do this? I think this bit works superbly well. He is not doing this CONSIOUSLY therefore he is not being stupid.

The close-up of Elijah’s hands beg the question – does he bite his nails?

I remember something about PJ doing this on purpose – i.e. movie Frodo DOES bite his nails.

Cousin Frodo, not knowing the inherent power of stupidity, attempts to stop Pippin from making more declarations. Pow! And Frodo goes earthward as the Ring sails overhead, and then, as luck would have it, the Ring would jump onto his finger. And into a hole in the floor goes Frodo.

pretty much like the book except we don’t have the Song. And, as mentioned in the text of the book in Bree, Frodo felt - “For a moment he wondered if the Ring itself had not played him a trick; perhaps it had tried to reveal itself in response to some wish or command that was felt in the room.”

Now, I know that as this is the first time that Frodo puts on the Ring, and since Bilbo left Bag End less than an hour ago that Sauron has increased in power, but to have the Eye introduced here so overwhelmingly (and then not again) is a little much.

Yep, as mentioned in previous sequence posts, we have the first BIG inconsistency in the movie here.

Speaking of fooling, did anyone think that the hobbits were about to receive acupuncture, Mordor-style? In the books, was it the wraiths or their henchpersons that attacked the beds? But I assume that the cutting back and forth between the beds and the hobbits in their bed tents (just how does one place covers over one’s head so that you have a foot or two of empty space?) works for those who don’t know what is about to happen.

this was no doubt a homage to the Ralph baski version – it’s almost a direct copy of the scene from the cartoon lotr.

I love Viggo’s narration over the images of the Nazgul. It works for me – information via the ear while I get to see eye candy. A little gem from PJ to us.

yeah, that line ‘Sauron the deceiver’ taken from the Silmarillion. Brilliant. Although I can’t help hearing viggo’s voice fall back to American (or at least mid atlantic) in this scene. A bit off putting.

Did you see Bree in the background as the hobbits and Strider come up onto the plateau.

I thought it might be Archet myself.

[Boromir88]

I wanted to point out one little thing before I go back and watch the rest of the sequences. But, I noticed another nifty little thing Jackson and Co. added to the movies. Here's another comparison picture...



Frodo and Gollum are both trapped in the Ring. Though Frodo is not fully inside the ring. He's only about half-way covered by the Ring, so it shows already that he's getting taken over by the Ring. However, he's not to the extent of Gollum as he is fully encompassed in the Ring. His fate lies with that of the Ring, the Ring has total control over him, and there is no more chance of being saved. He is "encircled" in the Ring. Where Frodo is only partially at this point in Bree.

[Holbytlass]

Very quickly, I'd like to gripe a little about how Merry and Pippin joined the adventure. My juvenile humor does like what was shown, them being the youthful scamps that they are (especially since the 17 years have not been portrayed) stealing vegetables from Farmer Maggot, with Sam saying his name, a little gem for the book readers.

All of a sudden they're along for the ride. Which brings me to my little gripe, wouldn't Merry and Pippin's families wonder where they are? At least in the books, because of the conspirarcy, they probably let their families know they might be going on a trip or at least there was Fatty Bolger to let them know where Merry and Pip went.

I can imagine poor (movie) Farmer Maggot being on trial for the disappearance of Merry and Pippin.
Prosecutor: You were always threatening these lads with your scythe, you finally made good on your threat!
Defense Attorney: If there are no dead bodies to see, you must set him free!

More later on.....
Boromir, I love the picture comparisons you bring up.
Alatar, beautiful children, again congratulations.

[alatar]

Essex, great post as always. Just a few thoughts, though.

Originally Posted by Essex

wouldn’t the nazgul want to take the bearer of the Ring alive, back to Mordor to be questioned/tortured/slowly killed by Sauron?

It's possible, and I don't know how it was portrayed in the books, but in the last sequence didn't Saruman just tell Gandalf that the Nazgul would kill the bearer and take the Ring? Is this true, or was Saruman just trying to scare Gandalf?

We need to show Frodo being affected by the Ring, and without a narrator’s voice, how do we do this? I think this bit works superbly well. He is not doing this CONSIOUSLY therefore he is not being stupid.

It just seems a bit silly and inconsistent. The Nazgul have been in pursuit and in the area since Sam and Frodo leave Bag End. With the exception of the scene where the Nazgul is practically parting Frodo's hair with his nose, not once before has Frodo been so affected. Think that it could have been done better.

Although I can’t help hearing viggo’s voice fall back to American (or at least mid atlantic) in this scene. A bit off putting.

it's a well-known fact that Rangers hail from New York . And PJ was just being faithful to the text, as even book Frodo notices that Aragorn's accent/voice changes as they discuss the situation in the hobbit's room.

[Kath]

The close-up of Elijah’s hands beg the question – does he bite his nails?

Yes he does

All of a sudden they're along for the ride. Which brings me to my little gripe, wouldn't Merry and Pippin's families wonder where they are? At least in the books, because of the conspirarcy, they probably let their families know they might be going on a trip or at least there was Fatty Bolger to let them know where Merry and Pip went.

But then, Merry is a Brandybuck and Pippin is a Took. We are always hearing of the strange things members of those families get up to in the books so parents or relatives might just assume they were off on a foolhardy adventure, especially since they are a double-act. Also, Farmer Maggott has presumably seen them and will have a nice little gripe to their relations, who would then likely think that they were off somewhere to stay out of trouble.

It's possible, and I don't know how it was portrayed in the books, but in the last sequence didn't Saruman just tell Gandalf that the Nazgul would kill the bearer and take the Ring? Is this true, or was Saruman just trying to scare Gandalf?

I should say trying to scare Gandalf, maybe as a last ditch attempt to get him to join him and help. It says in the books I'm sure that Sauron wanted him alive, and in fact, Saruman wants him alive, he tells the orcs to bring any hobbits they find 'alive and unspoiled'.

I do like a lot of this next sequence. Bits of it are close to the book, like using Mr Underhill as a fake name, and Pippin accidentally ruining the plot (which I think works, and an excuse for him can be that he was drunk, especially since he was on 'pints' now). The introduction of Aragorn I liked, though not for a second did I think he was evil, and then the continuing scenes with him were good, because again they got closer to the book - Bill, the apples, the 'look foul and feel fair' bit with Aragorn of course hearing every word. I did love that bit, it was one of the well placed bits of humour, not obvious or over the top, just funny.

Oh, and the first encounter with the Nazgul was a great moment. So the horse can magically shorten its body enough to hide behind a tree - the creepiness that oozed from the screen was absolutely right. And as someone said, the later shot of a Nazgul bearing down on Frodo really made you feel scared, or scared for Frodo and the Quest.

[mormegil]

One of my grips about this sequence again comes down to the passing of time. Is is just me or does anybody else think that Bree is just a lesuirely jaunt from the other side of the Brandywine? The indication we get that some time passed is the fact that it is raining. A 30 second segment to show that there is some travel involved would be helpful.

I think PJ begins to use a bit too much humor in these sequence too. I would find it sufficient to have the one bit of humor after falling off the cliff and Merry 'thinks he's broken something', we really don't need to see horse excrement that Pippin nearly landed in then hear Merry. I understand what Essex stated about lightening the mood but seeing animal dung really isn't humorous except on a low-brow level perhaps.

A humorous mistake is seen when Pippin is whinning about not having 20 meals a day when travelling and Strider throw him the second apple. The apple hits Pip in the right side and a split second later the same apple is seen in Pippin's left hand (the apple was not there previous) either it was and incredible cross-body catch or a minor, yet comical mistake.

Some of these have already been said but I would like to add my list.

• Wonderful scenery
• I loved the whole Strider sequence, he looks exactly how I imagine though I can't watch it now without thinking of TORE's avatar
• The Nazgul look great, even though they are a bit buffonish in being feet away and not getting their hobbit
• The Nazgul scream is similar to how I imagined in the book--harsh and high pitched.

I am sad that the conspiracy never happened but I understand the need to rush things along and get out of the shire without longer delay.

One thing the we haven't discussed yet is the absence of Bombadil. I think that most all agree that it was necissary to forgo his inclusion whether you like him or not. I like the old coot but agree that this would be far too confusing and time consuming to include in the movie.

[Essex]

Oh my god! How could I forget Old Bombadil! I would have remembered if I#d listened to the commentaries. One of the things that 'annoyed' me once I'd seen TT was that Phillipa Boyens says that 'just imagine that the hobbits DID meet bomadil' just that they didn;t show it.

Now a couple of things - ok, so Aragorn gives them some swords to use - that shouldnlt happen, but in TT when pippin's talking to merry when they're captured by the orcs and near fangorn - pippin speaks about 'remember the stories about the old forest and trees that could move' - they wouldn't have been old stories if the hobbits had been through and eaten by old man willow!!!!!!!!!!! and anyway, in rotk ee, they get eaten by old man willow again!!!!! what dumb luck!

anyway, to me bombadil is one of the KEY characters of lotr, not just a throw away. It shows that not EVERYONE is suceptible to the Ring, and indeed is not changed by the Ring. He could also see Frodo when he wore the Ring.

But, and most importantly of all, the Quest would have failed totally if they did not go through the old forest and meet bombadil. I've mentioned this umpteen times on bombadil threads, but if Merry hadn't got his numenorean sword to help slay the witch king, then Game Over for Middle-earth. (domino effect)

I would have really have loved to have seen the bombadil scenes - we didn't need to see his hey doll merry doll neccesarily, but at least show him - and imagine the scenes in the Barrow with the sword against the hobbits' necks...........

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Essex

But, and most importantly of all, the Quest would have failed totally if they did not go through the old forest and meet bombadil. I've mentioned this umpteen times on bombadil threads, but if Merry hadn't got his numenorean sword to help slay the witch king, then Game Over for Middle-earth. (domino effect)

A safe assumption here is that the sword given to Merry is of Numenorean decent.

I really don't see Bombadil as a necissary character for the movies. He seems to be confusing enough to many of the people who read the books let alone adding such an enigma to the movie. The Fellowship is the one movie where time was pressing enough that parts couldn't be sacrificed to make room for Bombadil. Plus, he's not really a pivotal character. The movie story is much more cohesive without him. I would like to have seen the hobbits travelling through the old forest then coming to the main road to enter Bree, like I said earlier, this would have shown some time passing and given an idea of distance. But to include Tom would just convolute the story and confuse too many viewers.

[Lalwendë]

One of my favourite parts in the books was the appearance of Aragorn. I remember reading it and thinking "ooh, who's this strange man then?" ...and a lifetime of 'gorn fandom was born. So i was excited as to how they would introduce him in the film. I have to say that I did like the way they achieved this - and they made nice use of the tobacco in his pipe glowing red, contained within...a ring. Though something I've always been fascinated by was missing, the entrance of the dark figure who slips over the gate.

I liked the look of Bree in the sequence, but I was disappointed that they laid on the sinister aspect with a shovel, as I've always thought of Bree to be an extremely friendly place, just with some odd customers at the pub. I noted that there were no other Hobbits in the pub either.

I did laugh watching it on freeze frame as it appears Isildur is walking down the street hidden under one of those cloaks. Is it Aragorn? And is he standing at the bar smoking when the Hobbits walk in?

As for the dropping of Frodo's song and the real reason he ended up wearing the ring, I have to admit I'm disappointed but not at all surprised. In general, Frodo in the films is played as 'intense Frodo', and his one moment of silliness looks very silly, his dancing at Bilbo's party. We know that Frodo was a light hearted and lovable Hobbit, with dreams, but not a permanent look of a 'rabbit caught in headlights' - he could have fun just as much as any other Hobbit. Here we get a Frodo who does not have much fun; all the instances of fun causing trouble seem to go to Pippin.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

I liked the look of Bree in the sequence, but I was disappointed that they laid on the sinister aspect with a shovel, as I've always thought of Bree to be an extremely friendly place, just with some odd customers at the pub. I noted that there were no other Hobbits in the pub either.

Agreed, Bree is made out to be rather unfriendly but I believe it to be an attempt to show yet again what trouble our band of 4 little hobbits are in. They have now left the cozy, and very green and peaceful Shire, and entered the big mean world that is far from the Shire and nowhere near as desirable. I'm not sure that making Bree this way is the best way to go or not. I would have liked to see a little bit warmer side of Bree. It's one of those havens that the hobbits find in the wilderness that can offer some protection. While not a Rivendell or Lothlorien, it is a little bastion of civility in which they find good food and shelter. This would have been another reason why they should have a brief segment of the 4 hobbits alone travelling through the forest. To show their plight, with a brief respite then back into peril in the wilderness.