Ooh la la, Lúthien...

[Lush]

Bekah, that's a very nice, thoughtful post, but I fail to see what it has to do with the discussion in general.

Lalaith, you're absolutely right in drawing that distinction between Tolkien and C.S. Lewis, at least judging from what I've read of Lewis so far. And as for Ungoliant, I don't think she qualifies, because she is a spider, not a person. The fact that Ungoliant and Shelob are female is significant, of course, but I don't think that this relates to Tolkien's over-idealized view of women per se.

think that Tolkien was the sort of person who knew what was morally right without having to be told by a religious organisation, and what is morally objectionable is loveless and mechanical sexual activity, which reduces the union to nothing more than the gratification of a bodily impulse.

That's very well put. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

So I am not the only lunatic out there who was intrigued by Beren and Lúthien's first meeting, which is comforting.

Lalaith, I agree that Arwen and Aragorn also had a very big "moment" on Cerin Amroth, but I think that it was different, less passionate somehow. For my part, I justify this by concentrating on what lay ahead for Aragorn and Arwen, they felt the presence of the shadow, and Arwen, for her part, was troubled by the idea of leaving her kin behind, even though she promised Aragorn that she would cleave to him. Lúthien, for her part, was never shown to have any doubts. Maybe that has something to do with the way the Sil is written, maybe with the fact that Lúthien was the daughter of a Maia, I am not quite sure.