The Silmarillion Survivor

[WaynetheGoblin]

++gothmog destroy evil.

[Lord Melkor]

++Thingol

Remove Thingol, the snobby, human-hating, isolationist ruler of Doriath. Thingol's contempt for humanity reflects very poorly upon the elven race as a whole, especially with Thingol being the most powerful king in Beleriand. Removing him so he can make way for a more human-friendly ruler who will allow them inside Dorath will do much to improve Human-Elven relationships. I don't really know who should succeed him, but considering the fact that there are bits of lemon peel floating down the Sirion who would make a better king of Doriath it really isn't much of a concern I feel.

[Lalaith]

I was all set to vote off Yavanna. Soppy tree-hugger who probably wears a lot of cheese-cloth and tie-dye, and clearly sees men and dwarves as a threat to her ickle fuwwy animals.
But then I saw that AngMod had removed her from the lists....so...I've decided to agree with Lord Melkor, particularly as I'm ethically opposed to isolationism.
++Thingol


On the subject of which, I'll be gunning for horrible Turgon sooner rather than later. And as for getting rid of Aredhel - *tsk*, phantom, where are your production values? This is about making an exciting reality tv series, not "lets give the Noldor a really easy life."

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

The fourth challenge: EDUCATION. Teach the Men and Dwarves that they should be nice Elf-friends, and not ally with nasty Morgoth.

Yes, Thingol could be fairly xenophobic. But he was not the worst. Who was it who said:

If the Men of Hithlum are so wild and fell, of what sort are the women of that land? Do they run like deer clad only in their hair?

Perhaps the worst insult that an Elf could throw at a Man. Ladies and gentleman, I give you the most xenophobic Elf of all time:

++ SAEROS

All Elves can be pretty snooty and superior at times. But surely he must be the most snooty and pompous of them all. He exemplifies all that I dislike in Elvenkind. Make an example of him, and perhaps his fellows will show a little more understanding. Indeed, without his counselling, it is quite possible that Thingol will look more favourably on those of other races. Certainly, with Saeros out of the way, Turin is going to get (and cause) a lot less grief when he comes along.

[Alcarillo]

If we get rid of Turgon we make it possible for Beren to only need mom's permission for Luthien's hand in marriage, probably without the need for a Silmaril. No Silmaril in Doriath = No kinslaying. And because Thingol is already gone, we won't get too see him get chopped up by minimum-wage dwarves. We lose a lot of the drama if we get rid of Thingol. And did not Melian's Girdle fail when Thingol died? This brings up an oppurtunity for orcs to roam through Doriath. Luthien won't be allowed outside! And Beren will never find her, and that means no Elwing, no Kings of Numenor!

Thingol is clearly an important part of the story. Take him away, and the other two kinslayings won't happen, Luthien won't meet Beren, and no Kings of Numenor will ever exist, whose dramatic woe-filled lives we will never read about here in the Seventh Age. Keep Thingol, for he is the creator of woe and misfortune!

[Glirdan]

Both arguments from Alca and SpM are good, but I'm going to have to side with SpM on this one. At least Thingol allowed Beren to marry Luthien. And who was the one that let Turin stay in Doriath and demanded that his mother and sister go live there as well? Thingol. Saeros is a no good elf who deserved the death he got. (well, will get ) I say get rid of Saeros.

++Saeros

[Lord Melkor]

Tsssk, tsssk. You silly people seem to have forgotten one thing: If Thingol is *cough* 'removed from the game' so to speak who will succeed him? That's right, Luthien! And we all know Luthy likes to get down n dirty with Mortal Men . I'm sure removing Thingol and replacing him Luthien will dramatically improve Elven-Human relationships. Sure, Saeros is an inflated, xenophobic windbag, but he's ultimately a small fish. Remove the inept Thingol and watch the number of Human-Elven relationships soar!

[Alcarillo]

Keeping the education challenge in mind, I shall vote off Bereg.

++Bereg

He spreads dissent among men wherever he goes, telling rumors that the Gods in the West are merely elvish lies. Those who listened to him passed back over the mountains and into the East. Who knows how many possible Elf-friends were lost at that moment?

Question to Ang: Is it possible for multiple evictions? I suggest that we get rid of Bereg, Saeros, and any others who can create hatred between Men and Eldar.

Edit: And will Silmarillion Survivor include the Akallabeth?

[Anguirel]

Ties result in mass evictions, yes...

Wayne, I'm not going to regard that as a valid reason. Come on, old chap, you can do better than that. It's two words long!

VOTES

Thingol-2
Saeros-2
Bereg-1

As for my own vote, relating particularly to the phantom's campaign against Aredhel, I am in agreement with Lalaith-

Originally Posted by Lalaith

And as for getting rid of Aredhel - *tsk*, phantom, where are your production values? This is about making an exciting reality tv series, not "lets give the Noldor a really easy life."

Exactly. Things have been too simple for the Noldor (admittedly thanks to radical but wise decisions) up till now. To stop the birth of Maeglin would be a barren trade of characterisation for hunky-doriness. It would also destroy any hope of redememption for my favourite character, Lomion, the Child of Twilight, the bearer of Anguirel, friend of Salgant...oh, how I wish Tolkien had written more on him...

I sympathise somehat with Thingol, and if he is voted off now Beren and Luthien will be a radically different story, either more bland or more dark, I'm not quite sure which. In any case, I propose:

++TURGON. He's performed his main service by founding Gondolin, and his highhanded behaviour to Hurin and Huor (yes, you can stay here and die, no, I'm not going to let you into my city Hurin, you can yell "Remember the Fen of Serech" as hard as you can, I ain't backin' down) will eventually come to represent the essence of failure of Man/Elf relations-incomprehension, hauteur, lack of empathy.

Maeglin (born soon) will make a fine successor to him, and will never betray a city he is King of...in the interim Idril can be another fine example of feminine government.

EDIT: Alca, fraid not. This game stops with the end of the Quenta Silmarillion and the drowning of Beleriand.