You say 'Faeries' & I say 'Fairies'

[drigel]

What Tolkien has done in OFS is to 'Christianise' fairystory & then claim it was 'Christian' all along. Smith is a step away from that, back to what Faery had been, but the Faery of Smith is still not the Fairie of tradition, & my question is why did he want to convince us it was?

Was it to convince us, or to show us an example of an historical authenticity? I lean towards the former... but why?

edit:

I've met some.

come on Davem - give

[davem]

come on Davem - give

One was about five feet tall & stepped out (literally) of a silver birch, the other was about six feet tall, dressed in black & silver-grey carrying a longbow. I was sitting in a copse of trees & my sense was that he was a 'guardian' or protector of the place.

And while some may think I was hallucinating (or drunk) you'll find this kind of experience regularly reported in many parts of the world.

And I don't care if anyone believes me or not

[drigel]

not once but twice
outstanding!

[littlemanpoet]

Sets my skin a-tingling.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by davem

One was about five feet tall & stepped out (literally) of a silver birch, the other was about six feet tall, dressed in black & silver-grey carrying a longbow. I was sitting in a copse of trees & my sense was that he was a 'guardian' or protector of the place.

Do you think.......were they the 'spirits' of the tree(s) they came out of? Or were the trees 'gateways' into Faery? Or is Faery not a different dimension, it's just that we mostly can't see it?

Also, is there good and evil in Faery, or is that something human story-telling brought into it that doesn't belong? Corollary: are there dragons, trolls, goblins, and other such in Faery, or is that something from Nordic myth that doesn't belong?

How did Feary get all wound up with Myth? Or are they one and the same.

I s'pose we can't be as scientific about this as these questions sound, but the questions are in my head, so why not ask 'em here? I can't think of a better place.

[davem]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Do you think.......were they the 'spirits' of the tree(s) they came out of? Or were the trees 'gateways' into Faery? Or is Faery not a different dimension, it's just that we mostly can't see it?

Also, is there good and evil in Faery, or is that something human story-telling brought into it that doesn't belong? Corollary: are there dragons, trolls, goblins, and other such in Faery, or is that something from Nordic myth that doesn't belong?

How did Feary get all wound up with Myth? Or are they one and the same.

I s'pose we can't be as scientific about this as these questions sound, but the questions are in my head, so why not ask 'em here? I can't think of a better place.

In short, I don't know.I go with the 'gateways' theory myself. Faery, for me, 'underlies' the world we experience with our physical senses, it is the 'archetype', the perfect 'unfallen' world from which this one devolved. I often sense myself surrounded by trees - even in cities - for instance.

Faery is the realm of the imagination - but not the human imagination.

But this is straying off topic.....

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by davem

But this is straying off topic....

Since when has that stopped you?

Originally Posted by davem

The question, perhaps, is which did Tolkien set out to do - 'baptise' Faery, or 'baptise' the human imagination?

(Oh, of course, the other question is, did he succeed in whichever he set out to do?)

I think, the human imagination. How could he do that to Faery? He only was a type of Smith, just like the rest of us, and made beautiful things in his smithy, greatly influenced by Faery.

Originally Posted by davem

Faery, for me, 'underlies' the world we experience with our physical senses, it is the 'archetype', the perfect 'unfallen' world from which this one devolved.

That makes it synonymous with Eden for me, but I suppose that's just one of many myths with a once-upon-a-time unfallenness. But your view of Faery seems a tad idealized to me.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by davem

In short, I don't know.I go with the 'gateways' theory myself. Faery, for me, 'underlies' the world we experience with our physical senses, it is the 'archetype', the perfect 'unfallen' world from which this one devolved. . . .

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

That makes it synonymous with Eden for me, but I suppose that's just one of many myths with a once-upon-a-time unfallenness. But your view of Faery seems a tad idealized to me.

So it seems to me also, lmp, very idealised. However, I would ask davem just what he means by "perfect 'unfallen' world". As he has pointed out, many of the original 'fairies' are contemptuous, cruel and malicious and it is Tolkien who sanitizes them. (See his first post in this thread.) Perhaps davem could clarify what he means by this unfallenness.

[davem]

That makes it synonymous with Eden for me, but I suppose that's just one of many myths with a once-upon-a-time unfallenness. But your view of Faery seems a tad idealized to me.

Originally Posted by Bb

So it seems to me also, lmp, very idealised. However, I would ask davem just what he means by "perfect 'unfallen' world". As he has pointed out, many of the original 'fairies' are contemptuous, cruel and malicious and it is Tolkien who sanitizes them. (See his first post in this thread.) Perhaps davem could clarify what he means by this unfallenness.

'Fallen' away from its archetypal state. My problem is that you're both asking me to explain my experiences - I can't - I can only theorise about them & my theories may be wrong.

I feel that Faeries are 'children' of the earth & that Faery is not the human imagination but the imagination of the earth itself. I also feel that Tolkien spoke quite literally when he stated that the 'Secret Fire' was sent to dwell at the heart of the world, & that this is a 'spiritual' (ie conscious) fire & is the life & soul of the earth itself. If it has life & soul it seems reasonable to conjecture that it has imagination as well.

As for the traditional antagonism of the Fairy races to the human, I suspect that can be accounted for by our own antagonism towards the earth. As the 'primary' races of the Archetypal (Fairies) & devolved (Human) worlds, our task is perhaps to find a way to re-establish the harmony that once existed - perhaps that original harmony was what Tolkien was describing in his mythology. The two worlds are 'out of synch' & that may be the explanation for the disharmony.

Or I could be completely wrong - as I say, I'm attempting to construct an explanation for something that happened to me.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by davem

I feel that Faeries are 'children' of the earth & that Faery is not the human imagination but the imagination of the earth itself. I also feel that Tolkien spoke quite literally when he stated that the 'Secret Fire' was sent to dwell at the heart of the world, & that this is a 'spiritual' (ie conscious) fire & is the life & soul of the earth itself. If it has life & soul it seems reasonable to conjecture that it has imagination as well.

I resonate with this more than you might expect. It falls in line with something I mentioned earlier on another thread: "mountains aren't rock, that's just what they're made of"; just so, the earth may be more than its inanimate elements. There's so much we don't perceive; a blind man can't prove the existence of green.