The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books > Chapter-by-Chapter
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-07-2005, 12:13 PM   #1
Kuruharan
Regal Dwarven Shade
 
Kuruharan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Boots

Quote:
That Sam takes him and carries him. It seems to me that, if it was the Ring that was driving Frodo, it would not know before this moment that they were going to the Mountain.
I'm afraid that it is inaccurate to think that the Ring did not know where they were going. It had been stated in the Ring's presence countless times. However, it is interesting to ponder if the Ring was trying to steer Frodo away toward Barad-dur and it wasn't quite able to. However, as I stated earlier, I don't think it mattered to the Ring because I think the Ring knew that Frodo would not be able to harm it.
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...
Kuruharan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2005, 12:24 PM   #2
Estelyn Telcontar
Princess of Skwerlz
 
Estelyn Telcontar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuruharan
It had been stated in the Ring's presence countless times.
That brings up the question: Could the Ring hear?
__________________
'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'
Estelyn Telcontar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2005, 12:45 PM   #3
Kuruharan
Regal Dwarven Shade
 
Kuruharan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Boots

Quote:
Could the Ring hear?
Uhhh...obviously not like we do. However, I don't think it would be pushing too far to say that it could pick up a "vibe" from things said around it.
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...
Kuruharan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2005, 12:49 PM   #4
Estelyn Telcontar
Princess of Skwerlz
 
Estelyn Telcontar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
Picking up a "vibe" is definitely not the same thing as hearing - and understanding - the contents of words that are spoken in one's presence! Methinks the Ring is being given more credit than behoves its actual abilities. Intuitive, yes; influential, yes; but not nearly as much an active participant in events as some have assumed.
__________________
'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'
Estelyn Telcontar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2005, 12:58 PM   #5
Kuruharan
Regal Dwarven Shade
 
Kuruharan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Boots

I'm not sure you understood what I meant. And your second sentence is interesting because...

Quote:
Intuitive, yes; influential, yes; but not nearly as much an active participant in events as some have assumed.
...if the Ring is to be intuitive and influential then it has to have some understanding of what is going on around it. You will have to explain how it could possibly be otherwise.
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...
Kuruharan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2005, 01:36 PM   #6
Estelyn Telcontar
Princess of Skwerlz
 
Estelyn Telcontar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuruharan
...if the Ring is to be intuitive and influential then it has to have some understanding of what is going on around it. You will have to explain how it could possibly be otherwise.
I'm not sure I can explain, but I'm thinking of intuition such as is found in animals. For example, my dog can understand what's going on, but not my exact words. She knows we're going to drive in the car, but though she hears when I mention the goal, she does not know what the words mean. This is not precisely the same thing, but I hope it illustrates the general idea.
__________________
'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'
Estelyn Telcontar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2005, 01:56 PM   #7
Aiwendil
Late Istar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
Aiwendil is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Aiwendil is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Estelyn wrote:
Quote:
I'm not sure I can explain, but I'm thinking of intuition such as is found in animals. For example, my dog can understand what's going on, but not my exact words. She knows we're going to drive in the car, but though she hears when I mention the goal, she does not know what the words mean. This is not precisely the same thing, but I hope it illustrates the general idea.
Yes, I think this is what I was trying to get at earlier. I don't believe that the Ring can think or know or decide. It does not take in information and analyze it as we do. It has only a will and no mind; it can feel but it can't observe.
Aiwendil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2005, 01:03 PM   #8
drigel
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
drigel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: commonplace city
Posts: 518
drigel has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Picking up a "vibe" is definitely not the same thing as hearing - and understanding - the contents of words that are spoken in one's presence! Methinks the Ring is being given more credit than behoves its actual abilities. Intuitive, yes; influential, yes; but not nearly as much an active participant in events as some have assumed.
I tend to agree, although we may be in the minority here. I think more towards the use of personification as a literary device, rather than taken literally, although the writing style leaves a lot to the imagination (Balrogs "flying", "wings" of shadow etc).
I may be alone here, but I am thinking the ring picked a vibe on a bearer as much as my power saw picked up a vibe from the electrical current as I plugged it in.

drigel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:45 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.