LotR -- Book 6 - Chapter 2 - The Land of Shadow

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

Are you implying that the Ring is driving Frodo to Mount Doom because it knows what will happen there and thinks that will give it an insurmountable chance to get back to its master?

An interesting theory, I'd never thought of it like that before.

An interesting theory, I agree, but one that would be very risky on the Ring's part. After all, it would know (in so far as the Ring is sentient) why it is being taken there- for destruction, and Orodruin is the one place in Middle-Earth where "mislaying" the Ring would be catastrophic for its continued existence. And then there was Sam... The Ring would clearly be aware of his presence- and the fact that he gave up its lure very easily. Sam would be a very dangerous wildcard where the Ring was concerned, because the Ring could not count on its temptation to prevent him from forcing its destruction.

On the other hand, the Ring was certainly without many cards to play. It had been unsuccessful in drawing the Nazgul's attention, and the Nazgul were no longer around to draw. Sam had proven incorruptable. Gollum was gone, and none of the Orks had yet caught a glimpse of it.

And too, the Ring (again, assuming it capable of complete thought), could have been "overconfident" for lack of a better word. After all, Frodo was almost totally under its domination as it was, and its powers increased the nearer they got to Mount Doom. The idea that Frodo could destroy it was laughable- as we indeed learn in another chapter. And, in fact, it took was may best be called a Divince Act of Providence (ie. Gollum's fall) to destroy it.

An interesting theory, indeed...

[Kuruharan]

I don't think the Ring would have worried about Sam too much. I mean we all laugh at the mental picture of Sam giving Frodo a helpful shove over the cliff, but I don't think Sam would have ever done that.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

I don't think the Ring would have worried about Sam too much. I mean we all laugh at the mental picture of Sam giving Frodo a helpful shove over the cliff, but I don't think Sam would have ever done that.

WE know that, but did the Ring?

The Ring, after all, knew that Sam had a mind relatively unclouded by its lure. And it KNEW what the purpose was in taking it to Mt. Doom. Furthermore, Frodo wouldn't have to be pushed into the pit to destroy the Ring. Imagine if Sam had taken it by force from Frodo (okay, I really can't see it happening, but imagine it anyway). Having given it up once before, I think it likely that he could have cast it in. Voila! You have Sam and Frodo both alive, and the Ring destroyed.

T'is unlikely, I know, for us who have seen what actually happens, but remember that at this point in the story, it is still very much up in the air what is going to happen on Mt. Doom. Just because we know what will happen, and how Sam would act, does not mean that the Ring would.

[davem]

The intentions of the Ring are interesting. What, exactly, did the Ring 'want'? Mount Doom seems to have excercised an attraction for evil - Sauron chose Mordor as his realm because of it. It almost seems as if the Ring was being pulled back to Orodruin as much as to Sauron - or maybe more than to Sauron.

I'm not sure its a question of the Ring knowing what would happen at Mount Doom. It occurs to me that maybe, just as the Ring was 'intended' to be found by Bilbo , but not, as Gandalf says, by its Master, the Ring was not wholly in control of its own fate. Is it not possible that the Ring was drawn back to the Fire, by some other will - that of Eru?

Pure speculation, but if Eru can dictate who 'finds' the Ring is it possible that rather than the Ring deciding to leave Gollum & be found by Bilbo it was Eru who made that decision for it?