Bashing: vb, hostile comment directed at a particular individual or group...

[Son of Númenor]

The Saucepan Man is someone who thinks, for the most part, that listing dislikes of the LotR movies is bashing.

I don't think that is true.

[The Saucepan Man]

Thanks SoNo. Yes, that is rather an over-simplification of my view.

I have no problem with intelligent debate about the films. I have engaged in it myself many times, expressing both praise and criticism for various aspects of them.

But there is a tendency here to harp on and on about this or that "disliked" aspect of the films. Sometimes it's intelligent debate but quite often it is simply criticism for the sake of it. And even when backed up by sensible reasoning, when people make the same criticisms over and over again whenever the opportunity presents itself, I call that bashing. Or repeated knocking, if you like.

There is also a tendency on this forum to focus on the criticisms and gloss over the films' many good points. Which is human nature perhaps, as controversy is always more likely to provoke people to put pen to paper (or finger to keyboard) than satisfaction. But it does tend to give a certain impression of people's opinions of the films which is perhaps not always the correct one.

Ultimately, though, I have no problem with critical analysis, bashing or a combination of both. It's just, as I said in one of the other threads, it's so last year.

[alatar]

Been giving this some thought, and now wonder if I really am guilty of the dreaded bashing. Maybe I am; maybe not. I'm open to other's POV, as a more humble part of me would say "yea" while another more arrogant side would say "no way." That almost sounds like a canonicity thread where bashing could be in the basher or in the bashing observer.

Anyway, as noted, what sent me to this forum, which has been really entertaining and a joy, was the Gandalf vs Witch-King ROTK:EE scene. That one scene made me do something that I'd never done before, which is to post to an internet forum (aren't y'all ever so lucky...). I had felt betrayed by PJ. That scene made no sense, belittled my favorite character and got me a bit annoyed with the whole ROTK movie (sorry, but that's just how this brain works). I was not a fan of PJ's after that.

So I started posting, and got into a few interesting discussions with Essex. Seemingly he and I were born to take different sides of an issue, especially when it came to the movies and how the movies compared to the books. He suggested (along with others) many times that I just let the whole thing go and watch the movie for entertainment. What was he talking about!?! Couldn't he see that a crime had been committed? Ahhhh!

Finally I let go. It was seeing others POV that really helped. Plus the venting surely was therapeutic. I got to transmit not only my logical criticisms but also some of the venom (I'll be honest) to an audience who at least understood what I was talking about. Other Downers felt just like me; some didn't. And PJ did a great job, yet still there are things which were wrong, were not what I would have done or were just silly. But it's okay. I can point out some of the things that internally make no sense, discuss scene minutia, argue either side of a discussion - whatever. The emotion is gone, and so now I post for fun - and what else would I do at 'work?'

Anyway, to stop rambling, I may have been in the TigRanter's Room once, but through this forum, I was able to leave.

[Essex]

Boromir and Alatar - Good points, and I enjoyed our discussions on various points you noted above. I like to take the opposite of the Devil's advocate point (don't know if there's a term for this?) wherever possible to defend the movies. Now there are times when I might not totally agree with the thing I'm defending (shock, horror) - but I do this to assist in stopping the threads becoming Bashing - Bashing to me is a thread saying how bad a particular bit of the moives (or all of them) are with no 'plus' points or arguments against this - If we have other people coming back with answers to these 'negative' views, then we have intelligent debate.

but, as I said in the thread itself, to call a thread 'What are your most hated parts of the movies' is not helping itself against being called Bashing!!!!!!

[Boromir88]

Thanks SoNo. Yes, that is rather an over-simplification of my view.~SpM

I think Estel was drawing off of the recent cases which seem to be the thing. But, I do remember way back when believe it or not our roles were switched. I said I did not mind Jackson's treatment of Denethor, because it heightens and dramatisizes Aragorn's arrival and taking the throne. Where I remember you saying something like you did not agree with Jackson on this issue. So, now that I think back more, I agree, but I'll be honest I think earlier cases have come off as anything against the movies is movie bashing.

But there is a tendency here to harp on and on about this or that "disliked" aspect of the films. Sometimes it's intelligent debate but quite often it is simply criticism for the sake of it. And even when backed up by sensible reasoning, when people make the same criticisms over and over again whenever the opportunity presents itself, I call that bashing. Or repeated knocking, if you like.

I disagree with this, now I don't go around looking for threads where I can criticize the film, but if there's a thread asking about this particular scene (for instance as Alatar said the Gandalf vs. The Witch-King, or the Mouth of Sauron) of course I will bring up what I have a problem with up.

As you say "repeated knocking," to me this means continually drilling a point down in the same thread. Another makes there's, I may respond to it a few times, but don't hammer it down other's throats. Make my point and go. That's how I take "repeated knocking," but of course we all have different opinions. If there's a thread discussing this very thing of "bashing the movies" than I will write what I don't like about it.

Sauce, I think the biggest thing is, there's so many threads on what to not like about the movies, so you do get this "repeated" looking thing, where you may here the same thing over and over. I mean I see two threads right now in the top 5 that are about what not to like about the movie. I'm sure the Gandalf/WK thread is on the front page, along with a thread on the MoS.

There is also a tendency on this forum to focus on the criticisms and gloss over the films' many good points.

I agree, but I think it's just because there's so few threads on what's good about the movies. But when they're there, I also contribute to them, on what is good about them, because there are certainly many things good about the movies. But, the reason the "bad" is overpowering the "good" is because there's probably 3 or 4 more times "bad threads."

but I do this to assist in stopping the threads becoming Bashing - Bashing to me is a thread saying how bad a particular bit of the moives (or all of them) are with no 'plus' points or arguments against this~Essex

I agree, there are many things to like about the movies. And bashers simply bash the movies to get attention and get responded to. These threads I stay away from (they're quite frequent on IMDB) because it only adds fuel to the fire.

I don't think I've ever told you, or someone that they were wrong. You like what you like and defend it, I don't like () what I don't like and defend it. That's as far as we can really expect to get.

I think being open-minded is the biggest thing that seperates a basher from a non basher. Bashers don't care about others opinions, again they just want to bash and get attention.

Where the non-bashers (hopefully myself) are always open-minded and I remember me specifically saying on occasion..."Hey, I never thought of it that way, maybe Jackson didn't do so bad here." That's the positives, and what seperates it from bashing. We discuss our opinions to broaden our minds, and possibly see things in ways we've never considered before.

[Essex]

just to add fuel to the fire: definition of bashing:

bash (CRITICIZE)

verb {T}

to criticize someone severely:

..........................

[The Only Real Estel]

Yes, that is rather an over-simplification of my view.

Sorry if it was too over-simplified, Sauce, but I had a very limited amount of time in which to create the thread so I didn't have time to look up a lot of threads on the subject. I did, however, remember you recently saying:

Essex is correct that listing things that you hate or dislike about the films is film-bashing.

in a film & so I used that to help me simplify things. Again, sorry if I over-simplified it too badly.

And even when backed up by sensible reasoning, when people make the same criticisms over and over again whenever the opportunity presents itself, I call that bashing. Or repeated knocking, if you like.

As Boromir88 mentioned, I think you have to define 'whenever the opportunity presents sitself.' If a new thread is created that I think has some value to it & it asks an opinion on a scene I've already talked about before, I'll raise the same criticisms again. Now if someone tries to hijack every thread by turning the discussion with a "that reminds me of this totally off-topic [of the thread] beef I have with PJ, let me redirect our conversation," that would certainly qualify as 'repeated knocking.'

just to add fuel to the fire: definition of bashing:
Quote:

bash (CRITICIZE)

verb {T}

to criticize someone severely:

By the way, I hope you know I wasn't trying to push my view with the subject of the thread...it was simply a lame attempt at being creative.