Do we realize how crazy we are?

[Anguirel]

Well, Fea, thinking about it, and picking a few non-conformists:

Nienna, Ulmo, Feanor, Galadriel, Maglor, Daeron, Maeglin, Turin, Elendil, Arvedui, Frodo...

they don't always seem to get happiness. Still, at least they get lovely FAME!

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Well, Fea, thinking about it, and picking a few non-conformists:

Nienna, Ulmo, Feanor, Galadriel, Maglor, Daeron, Maeglin, Turin, Elendil, Arvedui, Frodo...

they don't always seem to get happiness. Still, at least they get lovely FAME!

But they do good. And they create beautiful things. They are artists, m'boy.

Feanor created the Silmarilli. What truer art can you find than that which can never be forgotten? He captured light... that is simply amazing. Flashlights just don't hold up to many-faceted jewels. (note to self: think more about he Arkenstone and it's connexions).

Galadriel preserved art... she was more of the museum care-taker than the artist herself, and she kept at least part of the world a safe and beautiful place. She may not have been truly happy, but she was good, and she was kind. She understood things, and though that tends to be a sure way to breed cynicism, pessimism, and a whole lot of depression, Galadriel never lost hope.

Daeron created song. Must I say more?

Turin... well... fate dealt him one heck of a hand, I must say. But he made the world a safer place, yes?

It is not the fame that I think about, but the cause of it. As I have said before... I do not want to be remembered... I want my deeds to be.

Oh, and here's another thing. Perhaps all of your examples are conforming to Eru's will. Hm? What say you to that. Maybe the reason they aren't happy is because they know that they have no free will. They're too busy serving a higher purpose. How d'ya like them apples?

[Anguirel]

Oh, I agree, I agree. Most of those names happen to be among my favourites. Just saying that getting to Valinor through eccentricity isn't always a solid bet. But getting into song and story pretty much is.

[the guy who be short]

Originally Posted by Fea

The "in" crowd scares me. They always get caught when they're up to mischief, rarely think for themselves...

A little harsh, don't you think? Just because you're conformist, doesn't mean you're automatically a delinquent. Delinquents don't account for the majority of the population, at least that I've seen.

Originally Posted by Glirdan

all that happens when you're with the "in" crowd is that you get into trouble.

Again, you seem to have a different idea of general conformity than I do. The majority of people I know, while conforming to fashion and music and the such-like, manage to stay out of trouble. Do I simply live in some sort of Utopia?

Originally Posted by Glirdan

I'd rather be a Tolkienite than someone who smokes anyday.

It's perfectly possible to be both. I don't approve of smoking, but it doesn't automatically make somebody a conformist, or an idiot, or a delinquent.

Originally Posted by Fea

But they do good.

Non-conforming doesn't automatically make them good, though. I don't think our lack of normalcy () makes us any better than people who all, for example, avidly follow Big Brother. It just makes us different.

[Glirdan]

Yes, it does make us different, uniquely differnet at that. But tell me, who here doesn't like being differnet? If we weren't all different and everybody acted and look the same, this world would be a boring place! I perfer being differnet then being the same as everybody else. I love expressing my individuality and telling people how much I like LotR. I like dressing differently because that also expresses what kind of person you are inside. So for me, when I'm on this site, I act pretty much the same way I do when I'm around my friends. CRAZY!!! The only thing that's different is that I'm writing to you guys and I'm not using abreviated words like I would when I'm on MSN.

Again, you seem to have a different idea of general conformity than I do. The majority of people I know, while conforming to fashion and music and the such-like, manage to stay out of trouble. Do I simply live in some sort of Utopia?

That's quite possible TGWBS. But what I meant is that if to be "cool" you have to smoke, then I'd rather not do that. I'd do the complete opposite and express myself. And yes, you're right. Smoking doesn't automatically make you a conformist, idiot or delinquent.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

There might be those who think that the study of Tolkien's works could encourage smoking...

Thanks, tgwbs, for the reminder that different does not necessarily mean better or worse, just different!

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Bethberry

Every community creates its own identity.

The idea of communities and how they form fascinates me, but even more interesting are the 'rules' which are then created. We do have unwritten rules here, such as accepted ways of writing posts (and there are several), how to approach the issue of someone is basing an argument on incorrect information etc. We also get to know one another, and learn when it is acceptable to have a joke about another member and when they will not tolerate it. For myself, it was a gradual learning process; I was cagey at first and then gradually eased myself into the 'Downs culture. Others pick up the culture much more quickly.

Originally Posted by tgwbs

Non-conforming doesn't automatically make them good, though. I don't think our lack of normalcy makes us any better than people who all, for example, avidly follow Big Brother. It just makes us different.

Everyone has their obsession, even the so-called 'normal' people have 'em, whether it be following footie or watching soaps. In fact, I'd worry if someone didn't have a passion for something other than themselves!

Now, about actually trying to be 'different' - it doesn't work in my opinion. You could decide you will follow a particular 'alternative' way of life or fashion but inevitably someone else will be following it too. And you could to all outward appearances be entirely 'ordinary' but have extraordinary interests. The best thing to do, in my opinion, is just to be yourself, as we only get one shot at life (unless you believe in reincarnation of course) so we may as well be happy.

Originally Posted by Esty

There might be those who think that the study of Tolkien's works could encourage smoking...

If I was to quit (which will be an inevitable thing at some stage ) I'd have to quit reading about Hobbits for a while or I'd go spare reading about all that lovely pipeweed.

[Gurthang]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Now, about actually trying to be 'different' - it doesn't work in my opinion. You could decide you will follow a particular 'alternative' way of life or fashion but inevitably someone else will be following it too. And you could to all outward appearances be entirely 'ordinary' but have extraordinary interests.

Exactly. I said earlier that I didn't like it when people went with the crowd. I guess it's not so much that they go with the crowd, it's that they go with it just to be in the crowd, aka doing the 'in thing'. If people happen to do the 'in thing' because that's seriously what they enjoy, then more power to them. It's the people who are being fake and do what everyone else does just to fit in. It just doesn't work; people see through you and know you're fake.

So I guess conformity is not wholly a bad thing. Conforming to the Downs is a very fun thing, because I truly enjoy posting here. So it's really about motive rather than action.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Now, about actually trying to be 'different' - it doesn't work in my opinion. You could decide you will follow a particular 'alternative' way of life or fashion but inevitably someone else will be following it too. And you could to all outward appearances be entirely 'ordinary' but have extraordinary interests. The best thing to do, in my opinion, is just to be yourself, as we only get one shot at life (unless you believe in reincarnation of course) so we may as well be happy.

Just a thought: Sometimes the whole 'different' thing is just a way to protect oneself. When you act strangely, weird or 'counter,' you might be using that to keep people from approaching you. People can be scary (I'm told that all of the time, right before they reach for the pepper spray...), and so by being odd, you can keep the world at a distance.

Not that that's all bad, yet you don't want to be so different as to always be alone. Sure, you can do it, but life's more fun with someone (is somemany a word?) with whom to share it. One of the cool things about this time is that you can find others easily who are different like you. Imagine wanting to 'talk Tolkien' without access to the internet! That could be one of the reasons that there're voices in my head...

Anyway, be yourself, be with others with whom you can be yourself, and don't be afraid to show people your differences as they might be Tolkien nuts too, but they just might not know it yet.