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#1 | ||||||||
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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The effects of the Athelas may reflect the characters' personalities, but maybe they reflect what Aragorn thinks of each person? Or is he using the Athelas in such a way as to evoke feelings in each patient that they will particularly respond to? Aragorn must know Merry the best out of all the three patients and perhaps the fact that Merry awakens so quickly and fully reflects this? In any case, however the scents are evoked, I think that it might be worth thinking about what the words for each character really do mean. The Elessar is mentioned several times in this chapter and it brought to my mind where it originally came from and what purpose it had. It was made for Galadriel and I think that it had some purpose in the slowing of time in Lothlorien for the preservation of her realm. In UT there is some background about the creation of the Elessar, its use and its eventual fate: Quote:
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Maybe the Elessar did indeed have healing powers? When Aragorn appears at Gandalf's side it is noteworthy that he bears 'no other token than the green stone of Galadriel'; when he is done healing he leaves Minas Tirith and he casts 'his cloak about him', as though to cover the Elessar once more. Why would Arwen wish to give Aragorn such a gift? And why would she have Galadriel pass it on for her? It is certainly a splendid love token, but Arwen must have known how it could be used. Quote:
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Gordon's alive!
Last edited by Lalwendë; 08-29-2005 at 04:23 PM. |
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#2 | |||||||||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: commonplace city
Posts: 518
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Concerning the Ellesar: The impression I always had from LOTR was that this was a symbolic peice in nature. In other words, it didnt have any intrinsic power, per say. It's wonderfull history was never even hinted at really in LOTR. I wonder if the author intentionally left it out, so as not to infer that the healing came through it's use, and as a result, put more emphasis on to Aragorn. Still, some of the historical patina of the Elessar could have been diplayed without taking away from Aragorns role in this chapter. But, as far as mortals go, it really was just a piece of elvish glass if your werent a king.
I love the rare instances of humor that occur in this chapter as well! I also see some of Gandalf's stress showing. He goes from high praise: Quote:
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![]() And finally, a quote from Aragorn: Quote:
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Last edited by drigel; 08-31-2005 at 11:34 AM. |
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#3 | |||||
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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It is the ‘addendum’ here - ‘And so the rightful king could ever be known’ which is of particular interest - its not only the fact that the rightful king could heal, but the fact that his healing skills were one (perhaps the) way that the rightful king could be known. This ‘old lore’ does away with all the ‘politics’ & determines the ‘rightful king’ by what he can do. It seems that the ordinary people are less interested in heredity & inheritance, & mostly concerned with practicalities - can the king do his job? Can he care for his people? This sets up the standards & requirements of the ‘ordinary’ folk against those of their ‘lords & masters. Denethor is only interested in Aragorn’s legal claim to the throne. Because he finds that claim ‘unsubstantiated’ (he comes ‘merely’ of the House of Isildur) he will not surrender to him. Ioreth bases her judgement of Aragorn on whether he can do the job. Aragorn fulfils the people criteria - he heals the sick - so he is the ‘rightful king’. Gandalf appeals to this: Quote:
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I’m reminded of the line from John Crowley’s Aegypt: ‘There is more than one history of the world’. There is a ‘history’, a wisdom, Traditions, which are dismissed as ignorant & worthless, needing to be ‘stamped out’. Gandalf, Aragorn & Celeborn (& Tolkien himself, one assumes) knew different. |
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#4 | ||||
Wight
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Tottering about in the Wild
Posts: 130
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Hobbits reunited
Two things stand out in this chapter for me. One is Aragorn's healing ability, which I see others also find interesting,
![]() The chapter opens with the same atmosphere of battle-weariness which closed Chapter 7, personified in Merry. He is tired, lost and ill from the Black Breath; wandering in a sort of fog until Pippin finds him. It is touching when Pip takes charge of Merry here. Quote:
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Not all those who wander are lost . . . because some of us know how to read a map. |
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#5 | |
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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![]() Anyway, getting back to the point, it is clear that Tolkien created something new rather than attempt to 'preserve' old English folktales when he created his works and he does make reference to his antipathy of simply collecting old folktales in 'On Fairy Stories'. Here he has his characters display great respect for old folktales and find truth in them as repositories of old wisdom, which is interesting as it seems to conflict somewhat with his own view. But here I think he is showing how the old tales should not merely be treated as simple stories, but that there may be truths in them, hidden histories maybe?
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Gordon's alive!
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#6 |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 6,003
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While I think this is indeed a fascinating chapter, bringing some much needed relief from the intensity of the battle scenes, what I wonder about is Tolkien's sweetly gentle humour for Merry and even Ioreth but not for others.
This is a roundabout way of considering why it is so many of us hold the hobbits so dear. Why is the humour right here for Merry? What would change if Tolkien employed humour to Faramir's situation or to Eowyn's? It's appropriate for Ioreth and also for Merry. Does humour of this sort imply something gentle, friendly, some bond which dissipates the normal distance between readers and other characters? Is it appropriate for characters who are modest, humble, 'lower' than others on the social or the narrative scale? And the humour is neither biting nor cutting. Neither Merry nor Ioreth are cruelly mocked here. (Is mocking reserved for those who strike too close a tone with us?) So, is it this kind of humour one of the ways Tolkien comes to endear the hobbits to us? Among their many other admirable traits of course. Does humour create distance or does it level distance? I'm just so full of questions tonight, sorry.
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. |
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#7 | |||
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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Signs & Wonders
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Earlier in the story Legolas declared that a red sunrise was a sign that blood had been spilled in the night (the attack of the Rohirrim on the Uruks on the edge of Fangorn. Caradhras & Old Man Willow attack members of the Fellowship, a wind from the West drives back the darkness created by Sauron & dissipates the shades of Saruman & Sauron. The land of Hollin 'remembers the Elves who once dwelt there'.Nature is both 'active' in the form of aiding or thwarting individuals & 'passive' in the sense of providing 'signs', but it is always present, always a participant. From this point of view Middle earth is also a character in the story, not simply a 'backdrop'. I can't help thinking that this may be linked to the statement in The Sil that Eru sent the Secret Fire to dwell in the heart of the earth. It seems that Middle earth is 'alive' in a real sense - though admittedly not always on the side of 'Good'. I think it is this ambiguity which makes Middle earth seem a 'real' place to us, & causes the place to 'live' as a setting for everything from fan fic to computer games. We are drawn to Middle earth as a place in its own right, beyond the events & characters of the story. Its not simply, as with other stories, that we identify with the characters, or would like to meet them - we would like to go to Middle earth, even if the people of the story have gone. It is a world that we form an emotional 'connection' with because of the way it behaves. Finally, its interesting that Imrahil starts off believing that Denethor is alive, & Eomer that Eowyn is dead & then their situations are reversed. Imrahil begins in hope & ends in grief, vice versa for Eomer. The Black Shadow Quote:
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“Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects." Last edited by davem; 09-02-2005 at 11:32 AM. |
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