coincidence ? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

gayare'dion · 07-25-2002, 09:31 AM

i find it strange that sauron, had his ring finger cut off by isildur , and frodos ring finger was bitten off by gollum. so both the maker and (sorta)destroyer of the ring lost the same finger. coincidence ?

Gayalondiel · 07-25-2002, 09:42 AM

I don't think its a coincidence at all. It connects Frodo symbolically with Sauron, demonstrating the part of him that is lost with the Ring, just as Sauron himself is lost.
Thats just my view though, I imagine there are plenty of people ready to disagree! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Incidentally, it seemed a pity to me that Peter Jackson, working in a highly symbolic medium, missed this completely and lopped off all Sauron's fingers.

burrahobbit · 07-25-2002, 10:29 AM

In addition to that, it's really hard to get a ring off of a finger that it doesn't want to come off of. If you make a fist you pretty much assure that the ring is going to stay put unless somebody takes the whole finger.

O'Boile · 07-25-2002, 01:00 PM

Good post Gayalondiel.

Evisse the Blue · 07-26-2002, 02:06 AM

I agree, burrahobbit, the owner of the ring couldn't be made to give up the ring, and it had to be taken by force.
On the other hand, I think Gandalf said once that if somebody tried to take the ring from you by force, you'd go mad. Could this be the true source of Frodo's illness? what do you guys think?

Belin · 07-27-2002, 03:02 PM

Interestingly enough, the other method of passing the Ring on is repeated as well--it's a birthday present. Gollum seized it as one, and not only did Bilbo tell a story similar to Gollum's to Gandalf and the Dwarves, he gave it to Frodo on his birthday--simultaneously a birthday present for both of them. Obviously, it had to be given freely or taken by violence, but I'm not sure what the repition of the birthday is all about. However, if I were to go into Heavy-Handed Critic Mode (watch out, it could happen at any moment), I would point out the difference between Gollum's expectation of recieving gifts on his birthday (used as an excuse to take what he wanted) and the usual hobbitish practice of giving gifts on one's birthday, as Bilbo did. This certainly says something about Gollum's mentality, and his deviance from normal hobbitness, doesn't it?

Evisse--Yes, and a good point. I believe this came up in a very good Frodo thread a month or so ago, which I can probably find for you if you like...but, nahhh, let's have another discussion of it here. People may well say different things.

--Belin Ibaimendi
(It's my birthday soon. Can you tell?)

[ July 27, 2002: Message edited by: Belin ]

Sarin Elfarmour · 07-27-2002, 08:08 PM

as some one said before the ring wouldn't just slip off frodo's finger to fall to it's firey doom, it was probaly tight enough on his finger so that it wouldn't fall away before suaron could get it

Birdland · 07-28-2002, 10:35 AM

And don't forget that the ring could expand or contract at will, making it impossible to get it off a finger if it didn't "want" to be removed.

So in many cases, maiming the hand would be the only way to remove the ring, if it felt threatened.

Iargwath · 07-29-2002, 03:04 AM

Hmmm this never crossed my mind before. Good topic i must say.
By the way great reply Gayalondiel [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

07-25-2002, 09:31 AM	#1
gayare'dion Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 75	coincidence ? i find it strange that sauron, had his ring finger cut off by isildur , and frodos ring finger was bitten off by gollum. so both the maker and (sorta)destroyer of the ring lost the same finger. coincidence ? __________________ i like pants!

07-25-2002, 09:42 AM	#2
Gayalondiel Wight Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: My own little wierd, wierd world Posts: 133	I don't think its a coincidence at all. It connects Frodo symbolically with Sauron, demonstrating the part of him that is lost with the Ring, just as Sauron himself is lost. Thats just my view though, I imagine there are plenty of people ready to disagree! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Incidentally, it seemed a pity to me that Peter Jackson, working in a highly symbolic medium, missed this completely and lopped off all Sauron's fingers. __________________ Not another ****ing Elf! ~C.S.Lewis

07-25-2002, 10:29 AM	#3
burrahobbit Hidden Spirit Join Date: May 2000 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,424	In addition to that, it's really hard to get a ring off of a finger that it doesn't want to come off of. If you make a fist you pretty much assure that the ring is going to stay put unless somebody takes the whole finger. __________________ What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

07-26-2002, 02:06 AM	#5
Evisse the Blue Brightness of a Blade Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: wherever I may roam Posts: 2,685	I agree, burrahobbit, the owner of the ring couldn't be made to give up the ring, and it had to be taken by force. On the other hand, I think Gandalf said once that if somebody tried to take the ring from you by force, you'd go mad. Could this be the true source of Frodo's illness? what do you guys think? __________________ And no one was ill, and everyone was pleased, except those who had to mow the grass.

07-27-2002, 03:02 PM	#6
Belin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: all the wide unfriendly pathways of the world Posts: 330	Interestingly enough, the other method of passing the Ring on is repeated as well--it's a birthday present. Gollum seized it as one, and not only did Bilbo tell a story similar to Gollum's to Gandalf and the Dwarves, he gave it to Frodo on his birthday--simultaneously a birthday present for both of them. Obviously, it had to be given freely or taken by violence, but I'm not sure what the repition of the birthday is all about. However, if I were to go into Heavy-Handed Critic Mode (watch out, it could happen at any moment), I would point out the difference between Gollum's expectation of recieving gifts on his birthday (used as an excuse to take what he wanted) and the usual hobbitish practice of giving gifts on one's birthday, as Bilbo did. This certainly says something about Gollum's mentality, and his deviance from normal hobbitness, doesn't it? Evisse--Yes, and a good point. I believe this came up in a very good Frodo thread a month or so ago, which I can probably find for you if you like...but, nahhh, let's have another discussion of it here. People may well say different things. --Belin Ibaimendi (It's my birthday soon. Can you tell?) [ July 27, 2002: Message edited by: Belin ] __________________ "I hate dignity," cried Scraps, kicking a pebble high in the air and then trying to catch it as it fell. "Half the fools and all the wise folks are dignified, and I'm neither the one nor the other." --L. Frank Baum

07-25-2002, 01:00 PM	#4
O'Boile Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 117	Good post Gayalondiel.

07-27-2002, 08:08 PM	#7
Sarin Elfarmour Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 43	as some one said before the ring wouldn't just slip off frodo's finger to fall to it's firey doom, it was probaly tight enough on his finger so that it wouldn't fall away before suaron could get it __________________ Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-menu

07-28-2002, 10:35 AM	#8
Birdland Ghastly Neekerbreeker Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the banks of the mighty Scioto Posts: 1,751	And don't forget that the ring could expand or contract at will, making it impossible to get it off a finger if it didn't "want" to be removed. So in many cases, maiming the hand would be the only way to remove the ring, if it felt threatened.

07-29-2002, 03:04 AM	#9
Iargwath Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 236	Hmmm this never crossed my mind before. Good topic i must say. By the way great reply Gayalondiel [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ 'I waited patiently for the Lord; and He inclined to me, and heard my cry'-Psalm 40 My M-e Forum