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Old 08-09-2005, 02:18 PM   #1
Frodo Baggins
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Yes but there is true repentance and false repentance. I do not believe Mortogh really repented and was truly sorry of what he did. When Manwe let him go he was still as nasty as before and didn't care one straw whether or not he was causing grief for everyone else. Morgoth, I believe, only said he was sorry to get out of the sticky situation the Valar put him in. To put it more simply, Morgoth was not sorry for what he had done, he was only sorry he got caught.

Those who are genuinely repentant and truly seek forgiveness, who stop what evil they are committing, are gladly given grace.
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Old 08-09-2005, 07:26 PM   #2
Gurthang
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Quote:
Originally posted by Frodo Baggins
Yes but there is true repentance and false repentance.
True, but the mind of Eru, who I think this question is referring to, sees the true intent behind a repentance. Meaning He really knows whether you're sorry or not and there is no way to fool Him.

Quote:
Originally posted by burrahobbit
Oh you cad. You don't give it to somebody that is so naughty that they have refused every opportunity to repent their sinning ways.
I think he's got a point here. If a person refuses the grace that is being offered, can he receive it? I'd say no. The Noldor are a prime example. They forsook the 'grace' of living in Aman and left. At that point, the offer of 'grace' was withdrawn from them so that they could not come back, like Estelyn mentioned.
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Old 08-09-2005, 11:42 PM   #3
HerenIstarion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Underhill
But isn't "deserving of grace" a contradiction in terms? The very definition of grace is that it is not deserved, but is given as a mercy: "grace: 1 a : unmerited divine assistance given humans for their regeneration or sanctification".
Yes, that's the point, unmerited being the keyword. I'll go along with noone being deserving per se. Rest, I'll agree with:

Quote:
Originally Posted by burrahobbit
that they have refused every opportunity to repent their sinning ways
Deliberately omitting 'you don't give...' part of the sentence, seeing as it is unprovable in either direction. (1. No one knows mind of Eru as a whole 2. Eru is free at all times 3. Eru is merciful)

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