Gothmog: the poll

[Saurreg]

Originally Posted by dancing spawn of ungoliant

Do you know what was a Lieutenant's place in historical battles? Was he at the front marching with the troops or was it possible that he came to the battlefield some other way (here: flying a Fell beast)?

A lieutenant was traditionally the deputy of the commander in chief. So say if Bedford was commander in chief of the English, his main lieutenants would have been Salisbury and Warwick - individual army leaders themselves with their own entourages and aides. Similarly a commander of a contingent of the main army would have been the lieutenant to the commander of that army.

The lieutenant would have worked in a myriad of ways depending on the needs of the day.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

How did Frodo (or whoever told him about Gothmog) come to know the name of the lieutenant?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

How did Frodo (or whoever told him about Gothmog) come to know the name of the lieutenant?

Translator Conceit.

RE: Lieutenants

A lieutenant refers either to a military deputy or to the lowest rank of commissioned army officer. Since the second is clearly not the case, the "Lieutenant of Morgul" means that Gothmog is the deputy commander of Morgul- the Witchking's right hand man.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

So maybe it is all lies. Or maybe Aragorn was actually quite friendly with one Southron and managed to get his name into the history books as a mighty captain.

[CaptainofDespair]

Yes, but there are possibly several Lieutenants of Morgul. Why would there be only one? And, why would a Commander like the Wiki take his best sub-commander? He had no reason to believe he would fall, being empowered by Sauron's magic. So, the Wiki would take one of his lessers, as a back-up. His chief lieutenant of the citadel might be preparing a second wave (as we all should know, orcs lose troops by the thousands at any given time, and thus it would be wise to have a fit commander to come forward after Pelennor to both mop up, and continue the rampant slaughter that would carry into Rohan and Eriador).

I also don't trust Encyclopedia of Arda's claims that Gothmog was the second-in-command of Morgul, as it says something which I believe is a fallacy. TGWBS posted this from Arda:

As second-in-command to the Lord of the Nazgûl himself, he clearly had very great authority over Sauron's forces

. If Gothmog had such great power, he would have kept the Orcs from fleeing, if he was indeed a Nazgul. But, he only was able to muster the Easterlings. Why only them?

[Morsul the Dark]

Excellent point, maybe....Sauron Had his own Fellowship if you will like Captain said mybe there were many lietenents... One Orc one Easterling One harad..(wait are those the same as easterliongs? I forget.)

Gothmog could be the Easterling commander.

But then again it Sauron saw Aragorn he might have panicked and sent WitchKing's second in command.

More to the point though about the orcs fleeing Didn't they basicly fear their commanders if this were so they would take their first chance and run

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Gothmog was not the Easterling commander. He was the lieutenant of Morgul.

[Formendacil]

"THE" Lieutenant of Morgul... not "A" lieutenant of Morgul. And as for the pertinent quote, from the great book itself, it has already been posted on this thread.

Gothmog the lieutenant of Morgul had flung them into the fray; Easterlings with axes, and Variags of Khand, Southrons in scarlet and out of Far Harad black men like half-trolls