Who's your favourite hobbit... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

mormegil · 07-26-2005, 07:07 AM

You call that pity? I think Bilbo lacks any amount of courage. Remember my friend he is the one who wrote the historical narrative we have. No it's not pity it's simply a lack of courage to do the job right. Now look what the little sneak did during the battle of five armies. He slipped the ring on and passed out due to fear. I know that he contrived some far-fetched story but the truth is simple enough for those with the ability to look below the surface.

Samwise the cruelheart? No, calling him this merely shows your ignorance towards the most beloved hobbit. Now if you knew Samwise well enough, you would know that he was a master of psychology. With his knowledge Sam knew that the only way to heal Gollum of his malady was through keeping him still and tough love. You see Sam was merely trying to cure him and it almost worked but that poor wretch was simply too far gone even for master healer Samwise

Edit: For Fordim's sake. I like you TGWBS. Bilbo's okay too, but he still can't hold a candle to Samwise.

Fordim Hedgethistle · 07-26-2005, 07:16 AM

Now people, people, let's try to keep this civil -- the heated nature of this debate is beginning to make it look like the wings/no-wings debacle that surrounds balrogs.

So, say nice things to each other or you're all a bunch of Lothos!!

Folwren · 07-26-2005, 07:50 AM

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Bilbo was pitiful enough to stay his hand and allow Gollum to live. How noble, and of course, it meant the ring could eventually be destroyed. Even if this were not the case, it was the right thing to do, and he was displaying how merciful he was.

I don't think that it was pity that stayed Bilbo Baggins's hand! He didn't have a chance to kill Gollum except when he was behind him and made that final leap to freedom, and if he had killed him then, that would have been nothing less than a back stabbing murder. It may have been the right thing to do, but he didn't do it because he had mercy...he did it because he didn't have the guts to go off and kill something like that (like Mormegil said).

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On the other hand, we have Sam the Sadist, who likes tying Gollum up, attacking him, verbally abusing him, etc. etc.

You wanna hear some quotes from the books that prove Samwise merciful? Allow me, gentlemen...

Quote:

From The Two Towers, Book IV, Chapter One, The Taming of Smeagol:
At last Frodo was convinced that [Gollum] really was in pain; but it could not be from the knot. He examined it and found that it was not too tight, indeed hardly tight enough. Sam was gentler than his words.

(So much for your liking to tie Gollum up! Ha.)

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Same book, Chapter Eight, The Stairs of Cirith Ungol:
Sam felt a bit remorseful, though not more trustful. 'Sorry,' he said. 'I'm sorry, but you startled me out of my sleep. And I shouldn't have been sleping, and that made me a bit sharp. But Mr. Frodo, he's that tired, I asked him to have a wink; and well, that's how it is. Sorry.'

And mind that that was right before Gollum's most hideous act of treachery!! If you still doubt me...this one will smash any of your hopes of Sam's lack of pity.

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The Return of the King, Book VI, Chapter Three, Mount Doom:
Sam's hand wavered. His mind as hot with wrath and the memory of evil. It would be just to slay this treacherous, murderous creature, just and many times deserved; and also it seemd the only safe thing to do. But deep in his heart there was something that restrained him: he could not strike this thing lying in the dust, forlorn, ruinous, utterly wretched. He himsefl, though only for a little while, had borne the Ring, and now dimly he guessed the agony of Gollum's shrivelled mind and body, enslaved to that Ring, unable to find peace or relief ever in life again. But Sam had no words to express what he felt.

If you doubt Sam's pity and even pretend that Bilbo had more, then just think of all the time Sam had a chance to kill Gollum and he didn't. Bilbo had one chance - one chance to turn down. Sam had several. He didn't love Gollum...Bilbo didn't either...he was just more honest to express what he felt in his words than Bilbo ever was!

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For my part, I find it surprising that Bilbo has not yet been canonised...

What do you mean?

Was I nice enough, Fordim? And all this is mostly friendly bantering, is it not? I'm just sharpening my debating skills and my knowledge of both Bilbo and Sam!

Lyta_Underhill · 07-26-2005, 09:18 AM

Hey! Why doesn't anybody seem to like Pippin? He's all but been forgotten in this poll! Sure, he can be annoying, but I think Gandalf is just too easily annoyed! And who wouldn't want to splash some water around after a narrow escape from Black Riders in the dark of one's own homeland? I didn't see anyone else cleaning it up for him! Plus, he guided Frodo and Sam most expertly through parts of the Shire they couldn't possibly have navigated so well if it hadn't been for the nimble feet and mind of Mr. Peregrin Took! And let's not forget his easy social grace with Farmer Maggot, that kept Frodo from becoming dog food! He may be impulsive, but I think in this he is a more human reflection of Gandalf himself--allowing and causing things to be without a clear reason for them and yet this trait opens new ways and moves great events. Pippin is the upright Fool who becomes the Knight who lightly steps in this world (even laughing a little ere the end...) Even Gandalf said that Pippin SAVED him from a great danger and folly with his Palantir hijinks! And he grows up soon enough and well enough during the War of the Ring to emerge as a stouthearted hero in his own right, one who has great support in the Shire and a way with everyone he meets! Plus, he's cheerful! Look how depressed Merry and Frodo and Sam all become near the end of the War, just because Pippin isn't there to cheer them up!

Now why has everyone forgotten my dear Peregrin Took? And even added hobbits not on the list instead of realizing that Pippin is there, overlooked.

I have enjoyed this rant once again, as I seem to cheer myself up by going on about the merits of the youngest Fellowship member...he has, in recent times (let's say the last few years), alternated with Frodo as my favorite. But since no one has spoken up for him, I thought I'd have a go!

Cheers!
Lyta

P.S. I notice he's got votes, but I had not seen anyone explaining why they liked him! Blame my bad eyesight and hasty ways!

P.P.S.: I notice the Frodo seems to be losing this poll. Does everyone think he's just a tragic hero? I rather think of him as a dreamer who really appreciates the things he has and loves the Shire and woods that surround him! Real Elvish-like, as Sam might say....a seeker after beauty. In other words, a hobbit after my own heart! A pity that stupid Ring keeps people from liking him as well!

P.P.P.S: Haven't voted yet, but still trying to weigh the nature of my affections--similar but different...it is hard to pick a favorite Hobbit! I love them all! (Maybe I'm Gandalf? Hardly!)

Hilde Bracegirdle · 07-26-2005, 10:26 AM

I've been thinking about this poll, and mumbling on to myself about the problematic task of having to pick a favorite out of the lot. But once past all the grumbling I kept coming back to Sam. I won't go on about specific qualities of his, as it would be highly subjective, (I have a weakness for long suffering characters who don't take themselves too seriously), but Sam was the one hobbit whose presence stayed with me long after I had finished reading the story: a sort of heroic personage of the type you actually meet now and again. And if I could be half the hobbit he was, (and I don't mean stature) well then, I would be very content.

Folwren · 07-26-2005, 11:48 AM

Yay for Hilde Bracegirdle!!

Edit: I didn't vote for Peregrin merely for the fact that he's not my favorite. He's a dear hobbit, to be sure, and I'm sure everyone loves him, even though they say otherwise on this thread sometimes.

And it was a hard choice for be to pick either Frodo or Sam. As you have probably noticed, I decided on Sam, but Frodo was almost it. Don't worry - Frodo wasn't forgotten, even though the poll may make it appear so.

**The Saucepan Man** · 07-26-2005, 05:04 PM

Personally, I like my Hobbits "Hobbity" and Frodo (while most definately a most admirable Hobbit) is, by the end, rather too "unwordly" to get my vote. Perhaps that's the reason for his relatively poor showing in the poll (I'm sure that he would top many others).

Of the "Fellowship Hobbits", I would have voted for Pippin, for many of the reasons that Lyta so eloquently stated. His innocence, sense of humour and curiosity are appealing and his transition from "young innocent abroad" to Gondorian warrior is a great aspect of the story.

But my first introduction to Tolkien was courtesy of Bilbo, when I first read The Hobbit many many years ago, and I probably identify most with him of all the characters in either the Hobbit or LotR (with the possible exception of Butterbur

). So its Bilbo who gest my vote.

View Poll Results: My favourite hobbit is:
Frodo	6	9.84%
Bilbo	12	19.67%
Pippin	13	21.31%
Merry	12	19.67%
Sam	18	29.51%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

07-26-2005, 07:07 AM	#1
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,651	Pity? You call that pity? I think Bilbo lacks any amount of courage. Remember my friend he is the one who wrote the historical narrative we have. No it's not pity it's simply a lack of courage to do the job right. Now look what the little sneak did during the battle of five armies. He slipped the ring on and passed out due to fear. I know that he contrived some far-fetched story but the truth is simple enough for those with the ability to look below the surface. Samwise the cruelheart? No, calling him this merely shows your ignorance towards the most beloved hobbit. Now if you knew Samwise well enough, you would know that he was a master of psychology. With his knowledge Sam knew that the only way to heal Gollum of his malady was through keeping him still and tough love. You see Sam was merely trying to cure him and it almost worked but that poor wretch was simply too far gone even for master healer Samwise Edit: For Fordim's sake. I like you TGWBS. Bilbo's okay too, but he still can't hold a candle to Samwise. __________________ “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” Last edited by mormegil; 07-26-2005 at 07:19 AM.

07-26-2005, 07:16 AM	#2
Fordim Hedgethistle Gibbering Gibbet Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Beyond cloud nine Posts: 1,844	Now people, people, let's try to keep this civil -- the heated nature of this debate is beginning to make it look like the wings/no-wings debacle that surrounds balrogs. So, say nice things to each other or you're all a bunch of Lothos!! __________________ Scribbling scrabbling.

07-26-2005, 09:18 AM	#4
Lyta_Underhill Haunted Halfling Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: an uncounted length of steps--floating between air molecules Posts: 841	Hobbit-Baggage Hey! Why doesn't anybody seem to like Pippin? He's all but been forgotten in this poll! Sure, he can be annoying, but I think Gandalf is just too easily annoyed! And who wouldn't want to splash some water around after a narrow escape from Black Riders in the dark of one's own homeland? I didn't see anyone else cleaning it up for him! Plus, he guided Frodo and Sam most expertly through parts of the Shire they couldn't possibly have navigated so well if it hadn't been for the nimble feet and mind of Mr. Peregrin Took! And let's not forget his easy social grace with Farmer Maggot, that kept Frodo from becoming dog food! He may be impulsive, but I think in this he is a more human reflection of Gandalf himself--allowing and causing things to be without a clear reason for them and yet this trait opens new ways and moves great events. Pippin is the upright Fool who becomes the Knight who lightly steps in this world (even laughing a little ere the end...) Even Gandalf said that Pippin SAVED him from a great danger and folly with his Palantir hijinks! And he grows up soon enough and well enough during the War of the Ring to emerge as a stouthearted hero in his own right, one who has great support in the Shire and a way with everyone he meets! Plus, he's cheerful! Look how depressed Merry and Frodo and Sam all become near the end of the War, just because Pippin isn't there to cheer them up! Now why has everyone forgotten my dear Peregrin Took? And even added hobbits not on the list instead of realizing that Pippin is there, overlooked. I have enjoyed this rant once again, as I seem to cheer myself up by going on about the merits of the youngest Fellowship member...he has, in recent times (let's say the last few years), alternated with Frodo as my favorite. But since no one has spoken up for him, I thought I'd have a go! Cheers! Lyta P.S. I notice he's got votes, but I had not seen anyone explaining why they liked him! Blame my bad eyesight and hasty ways! P.P.S.: I notice the Frodo seems to be losing this poll. Does everyone think he's just a tragic hero? I rather think of him as a dreamer who really appreciates the things he has and loves the Shire and woods that surround him! Real Elvish-like, as Sam might say....a seeker after beauty. In other words, a hobbit after my own heart! A pity that stupid Ring keeps people from liking him as well! P.P.P.S: Haven't voted yet, but still trying to weigh the nature of my affections--similar but different...it is hard to pick a favorite Hobbit! I love them all! (Maybe I'm Gandalf? Hardly!) __________________ “…she laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth; and there is her green grave, until the world is changed, and all the days of her life are utterly forgotten by men that come after, and elanor and niphredil bloom no more east of the Sea.” Last edited by Lyta_Underhill; 07-26-2005 at 10:35 AM.

07-26-2005, 10:26 AM	#5
Hilde Bracegirdle Relic of Wandering Days Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: You'll See Perpetual Change. Posts: 1,480	Another vote for Sam. I've been thinking about this poll, and mumbling on to myself about the problematic task of having to pick a favorite out of the lot. But once past all the grumbling I kept coming back to Sam. I won't go on about specific qualities of his, as it would be highly subjective, (I have a weakness for long suffering characters who don't take themselves too seriously), but Sam was the one hobbit whose presence stayed with me long after I had finished reading the story: a sort of heroic personage of the type you actually meet now and again. And if I could be half the hobbit he was, (and I don't mean stature) well then, I would be very content.

07-26-2005, 11:48 AM	#6
Folwren Messenger of Hope Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a tiny, insignificant little town in one of the many States. Posts: 5,076	Yay for Hilde Bracegirdle!! Edit: I didn't vote for Peregrin merely for the fact that he's not my favorite. He's a dear hobbit, to be sure, and I'm sure everyone loves him, even though they say otherwise on this thread sometimes. And it was a hard choice for be to pick either Frodo or Sam. As you have probably noticed, I decided on Sam, but Frodo was almost it. Don't worry - Frodo wasn't forgotten, even though the poll may make it appear so. __________________ A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. - C.S. Lewis Last edited by Folwren; 07-26-2005 at 11:52 AM.

07-26-2005, 05:04 PM	#7
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	Personally, I like my Hobbits "Hobbity" and Frodo (while most definately a most admirable Hobbit) is, by the end, rather too "unwordly" to get my vote. Perhaps that's the reason for his relatively poor showing in the poll (I'm sure that he would top many others). Of the "Fellowship Hobbits", I would have voted for Pippin, for many of the reasons that Lyta so eloquently stated. His innocence, sense of humour and curiosity are appealing and his transition from "young innocent abroad" to Gondorian warrior is a great aspect of the story. But my first introduction to Tolkien was courtesy of Bilbo, when I first read The Hobbit many many years ago, and I probably identify most with him of all the characters in either the Hobbit or LotR (with the possible exception of Butterbur ). So its Bilbo who gest my vote. __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!