LotR -- Book 5 - Chapter 04 - The Siege of Gondor

[davem]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

This I think is the clearest statement of what Gandalf really cared about that one will find anywhere. He says that Gondor may fall (and at that moment there was no certainty that Aragorn would win through and survive the war to become king). The success of his mission did not depend on Aragorn's triumph.

I'm not saying the success of his mission depended on it, I'm saying it had become a part of it. It wasn't just a matter of just defeating Sauron, & then walking away from the possible chaos that might result, it was about leaving Middle-earth in some kind of order for its new beginning. Having Aragorn become king, re-establishing the Royal line, etc, were all part of that.

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

But wasn't it Denethor who didn't treat Faramir rightly from the start? He had always made it obvious that he preferred Boromir over Faramir, and Faramir accepted that. Now that Boromir's gone, Denethor would still not let go of him. Faramir was willing to do everything Boromir had left behind, yet Denethor still did not recognize that - when he said, "That would depend upon the manner of your return." I think Denethor only realized what he had all along (i.e., Faramir) when he was about to lose it.

Denethor was a man- that was his tragedy, if you like. He screwed up, behaved badly & was over proud, but at heart he was a flawed human being like all of us. Its too easy to judge. There but for the grace of God....