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#1 | |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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In short, I don't think Aragorn's succession is an 'optional extra' or merely a 'nice touch' to bring about a happy ending as far as Gandalf is concerned. He may not have been sent by the Valar with that specific goal in mind, but I think as time went on he would have come to include it in his mission...... IMO..... |
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#2 | ||
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
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...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
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#3 | ||
Estelo dagnir, Melo ring
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,063
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Gandalf’s ‘little plans’ were all things that acted in a ripple effect, and through this, ultimately gained his goal with the destruction of the Ring and the defeat of Sauron. Gandalf had no need to depend on one of these plans… Thinking of weaving, Gandalf was leading so many little threads into others to create the desired effect, that his final goal would not be gone if he lost any of these threads, as he had only to pick up more and try again. (I had what I think was a more coherent post written, but due to my computer’s hatred of me, it is now sadly buried in cyberspace.) |
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#4 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
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I disagree with one small part...
I think he (and everyone else) would have been in deep doo-doo had the "get Frodo to Rivendell" thread been lost (although he personally did not have a whole lot to do with that).
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...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
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#5 | |
Hauntress of the Havens
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: IN it, but not OF it
Posts: 2,538
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#6 | |
Animated Skeleton
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What a chapter!
This is my first time and if there are a few things posted here that have been discussed previously in other chapters, (for there are a few general things).I'm sorry. Please point them out.
To start off, this chapter rocks! So many things happen here. This is probably one of the longest chapters. After the council and 'Shadow of the past', I think. The best thing of this chapter, and indeed of the tale itself, is that we view it from the eyes of a small, simple and frightened hobbit to whom everything sounds so large scale and everything important, who holds every soldier as worthy and mainly who feels strongly for all his friends.. I'm sure it wouldn't have been as interesting if said from the view of a citizen of Gondor, a soldier or healer or someone or even fom Gandalf's or Denethor's view.. (This is where I hold Tolkien's works much better than some fanfics. Human emotion and the mighty's view is too complicated to suit imagination. Nothing seems very extrodinary.) One thing I noticed. Look at this statement. Quote:
There are a few more things which I'll post in detail later, more to do with the chapter itself.
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Half-brother in blood, full brother in heart will I be. Thou shalt lead and I will follow. May no new grief divide us. |
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#7 | ||
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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#8 | |||||||||||||
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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Looking objectively at Denethor and forgetting for a moment how much we all love Faramir, his behaviour shows him to have been a great leader who has slowly been worn down by the threat of war. He may also have felt undermined by Gandalf’s influence on hiss second son. When Boromir is gone, Denethor expects Faramir to take his place, and when he is not immediately eager to do so his anger is roused. He points out that despite his fine qualities, Faramir must also demonstrate his martial qualities:
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I wonder what sort of technology Sauron has access to. The armies laying siege to Gondor use a number of interesting techniques, including hurling the heads of the Gondorian men over the walls. This would have not only a profound psychological effect but could possibly also spread disease, weakening the people. They have ‘planes’ in the form of the Fell beasts, and they have engines of war with the Mumakil. Quote:
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But the chief weapon of the enemy is fear, a very potent topic these past few weeks in the real world. Quote:
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Gordon's alive!
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#9 | |
Estelo dagnir, Melo ring
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,063
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#10 | |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
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I'm not sure that Middle-earth would have been left in chaos. Gondor would have been left under the rule of Faramir (and I can think of far worse people to be ruled by). Rohan might have ended up being ruled by Eowyn. That opens up the possibility of a Gondor/Rohan merger... I guess the real difference is that there would have been no king over the wide empty spaces of Eriador.
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...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
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#11 | |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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Quote:
I think you have a point about another thread on this subject - was Aragorn's succeeding to the throne of Gondor necessary, & if so for what reasons? Faramir would not have assumed the Kingship of Gondor, so the realm would have remained ruled by a steward 'until the King come again'. |
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