Tol-in-Gaurhoth (Isle of Werewolves) - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Holbytlass · 07-15-2005, 11:23 AM

I am unexpectedly going out of town for the day tomorrow Saturday the 16th 9:00a.m.-10:00-ishP.m. (EDT). Will resume the second half of the "day".

Feanor of the Peredhil · 07-15-2005, 12:10 PM

Got it.

Oddwen · 07-17-2005, 08:31 PM

If nobody has dibs, I'd like to mod WWVII.
More when VI has finished.

Firefoot · 07-17-2005, 08:35 PM

Sorry, Oddwen... I've already called it.

Oddwen · 07-17-2005, 08:47 PM

Okay, then.

I'll try for IIX, then.

littlemanpoet · 07-18-2005, 09:18 AM

Now that the Finale of Werewolf VI is academic, I'm going to post up a few reflections on strategy. Please convince me I'm wrong about any of this, if you can.

The Mythomaniac is such a powerful wildcard that it creates the equivalent to a permanent power play in hockey. The Cursed Villager served that function for the werewolves already in Game III & IV, but was in Game IV balanced by the existence of a wealth of gifted innocents, not to mention the fact that the CV got lynched quickly.

That the MM became Seer#2 in game VI, gave the innocents such a powerful advantage that the werewolves didn't have a chance unless the innocents really bungled. The fact that there were so few ungifted innocents was no liability, but instead belied an embarrassment of riches in terms of gifted innocents.

After the Seer, the most powerful role, if used wisely, is not Ranger nor Hunter, but the two Shirriffs, revealed (on day 2, not day 1, I think) as known innocents. It effectively takes the initiative away from the werewolves until the werwolves can get rid of the shirriffs, which takes no less than 2 Nights.

All of this rehash to reiterate something I said before, which has now been proven out: if gifted innocents outnumber ungifted innocents, the werewolves are at a disadvantage. Further, the more experienced players we have, the harder it's going to be for the werewolves to win.

In Game V, if The Guy had been a known innocent, Feanor's set of double bluffs would not have been nearly as effective. In the same game, if the MM had become an additional Ranger or Hunter, or a second Seer, it would have tipped the balance against the werewolves so much that I think they'd have had a real hard time pulling off a win instead of the romp they experienced.

So I have two suggestions for future mods:

(1) If gifted innocents outnumber ungifted innocents, you will keep a better balance in the game by having a Cursed Villager instead of a Mythomaniac.

(2) The Mythomaniac needs to be rendered less of a doom-thrower against whichever side it does NOT wind up on. Therefore, try instead of having a one-time MM choice, have the Moderator do a random nightly choice such that the role of the MM changes every two Nights; this means that the MM could be a Seer for two Days and two Nights, then a werewolf for two Days and two Nights.

Like I said, please convince me I'm wrong about this stuff if you think I am.

Feanor of the Peredhil · 07-18-2005, 09:30 AM

No point in arguing, LMP, because you're absolutely right. The second Footie picked Oromin, I knew the village had it in the bag. Mith can vouch that I claimed I'd cry if they lost.

As much as I like the Mytho as a wildcard, I think [s]he gives too much sway to whichever side [s]he picks. In WWV, it was a fantastically close game, and cleverly played (not to brag, but it was). But I doubt it would turn out like that again.

And gifted villagers outweighing normal is too much. Quite honestly, I think going back to a game with just wolves and a seer would be a blast, now that we're getting the hang of it.

mormegil · 07-18-2005, 09:35 AM

One thing I thought about this game coincides with your thoughts LMP but differs slightly. The villagers were simply too powerful. Especially with Firefoot picking to be a seer...good job by the way...and then our Shirriffs played wonderfully. I would recommend in that small of a game to only have one or the other a mytho or sherriffs. Both seemed overkill. If however we had 16 to 19 players then I could see having all the roles. Remeber though in the previous game Kath (mytho) choose to be a werewolf much to the disadvantage of the villagers.

I don't agree that having the mytho change roles every other night is such a good idea. I think it would be confusing for all involved. Especially the poor moderator who is trying to keep up as it is.

Oddwen · 07-18-2005, 09:53 AM

True, the more "active" gifteds do make for a swift game. Having the Sherriffs and something else is probably more beneficial to a game with a whooole lot more players.
If one insists on lots of gifteds, a "Cobbler" might be a good addition to the WW's side, but then it's probably going too far.

"Fea is a werewolf!"
"No, I'm the hunter."
"I thought you were the guardian?"
"No, I, Kath am the guardian"
"Sauce and the phantom are the sherriffs!"
"I'm a werewolf! I'm a werewolf!"
"Shut up Nilp, we know you're the cobbler."
"Isn't ANYONE a regular villager??"

Sounds like godmodding in an RPG...

07-15-2005, 11:23 AM	#1
Holbytlass Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Party Tree Posts: 1,042	I am unexpectedly going out of town for the day tomorrow Saturday the 16th 9:00a.m.-10:00-ishP.m. (EDT). Will resume the second half of the "day". __________________ Holby is an actual flesh-and-blood person, right? Not, say a sock-puppet of Nilp’s, by any chance? ~Nerwen, WWCIII

07-17-2005, 08:31 PM	#3
Oddwen Drummer in the Deep Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Next Sunday A.D. Posts: 2,145	I trust the time is appropriate... If nobody has dibs, I'd like to mod WWVII. More when VI has finished. __________________ But all the while I sit and think of times there were before I listen for returning feet and voices at the door

07-17-2005, 08:47 PM	#5
Oddwen Drummer in the Deep Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Next Sunday A.D. Posts: 2,145	Whups... Okay, then. I'll try for IIX, then. __________________ But all the while I sit and think of times there were before I listen for returning feet and voices at the door

07-18-2005, 09:30 AM	#7
Feanor of the Peredhil La Belle Dame sans Merci Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: perpetual uncertainty Posts: 5,517	No point in arguing, LMP, because you're absolutely right. The second Footie picked Oromin, I knew the village had it in the bag. Mith can vouch that I claimed I'd cry if they lost. As much as I like the Mytho as a wildcard, I think [s]he gives too much sway to whichever side [s]he picks. In WWV, it was a fantastically close game, and cleverly played (not to brag, but it was). But I doubt it would turn out like that again. And gifted villagers outweighing normal is too much. Quite honestly, I think going back to a game with just wolves and a seer would be a blast, now that we're getting the hang of it. __________________ peace

07-18-2005, 09:35 AM	#8
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,651	One thing I thought about this game coincides with your thoughts LMP but differs slightly. The villagers were simply too powerful. Especially with Firefoot picking to be a seer...good job by the way...and then our Shirriffs played wonderfully. I would recommend in that small of a game to only have one or the other a mytho or sherriffs. Both seemed overkill. If however we had 16 to 19 players then I could see having all the roles. Remeber though in the previous game Kath (mytho) choose to be a werewolf much to the disadvantage of the villagers. I don't agree that having the mytho change roles every other night is such a good idea. I think it would be confusing for all involved. Especially the poor moderator who is trying to keep up as it is. __________________ “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

07-15-2005, 12:10 PM	#2
Feanor of the Peredhil La Belle Dame sans Merci Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: perpetual uncertainty Posts: 5,517	Got it. __________________ peace

07-17-2005, 08:35 PM	#4
Firefoot Illusionary Holbytla Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 7,547	Sorry, Oddwen... I've already called it.

07-18-2005, 09:18 AM	#6
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Now that the Finale of Werewolf VI is academic, I'm going to post up a few reflections on strategy. Please convince me I'm wrong about any of this, if you can. The Mythomaniac is such a powerful wildcard that it creates the equivalent to a permanent power play in hockey. The Cursed Villager served that function for the werewolves already in Game III & IV, but was in Game IV balanced by the existence of a wealth of gifted innocents, not to mention the fact that the CV got lynched quickly. That the MM became Seer#2 in game VI, gave the innocents such a powerful advantage that the werewolves didn't have a chance unless the innocents really bungled. The fact that there were so few ungifted innocents was no liability, but instead belied an embarrassment of riches in terms of gifted innocents. After the Seer, the most powerful role, if used wisely, is not Ranger nor Hunter, but the two Shirriffs, revealed (on day 2, not day 1, I think) as known innocents. It effectively takes the initiative away from the werewolves until the werwolves can get rid of the shirriffs, which takes no less than 2 Nights. All of this rehash to reiterate something I said before, which has now been proven out: if gifted innocents outnumber ungifted innocents, the werewolves are at a disadvantage. Further, the more experienced players we have, the harder it's going to be for the werewolves to win. In Game V, if The Guy had been a known innocent, Feanor's set of double bluffs would not have been nearly as effective. In the same game, if the MM had become an additional Ranger or Hunter, or a second Seer, it would have tipped the balance against the werewolves so much that I think they'd have had a real hard time pulling off a win instead of the romp they experienced. So I have two suggestions for future mods: (1) If gifted innocents outnumber ungifted innocents, you will keep a better balance in the game by having a Cursed Villager instead of a Mythomaniac. (2) The Mythomaniac needs to be rendered less of a doom-thrower against whichever side it does NOT wind up on. Therefore, try instead of having a one-time MM choice, have the Moderator do a random nightly choice such that the role of the MM changes every two Nights; this means that the MM could be a Seer for two Days and two Nights, then a werewolf for two Days and two Nights. Like I said, please convince me I'm wrong about this stuff if you think I am.

07-18-2005, 09:53 AM	#9
Oddwen Drummer in the Deep Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Next Sunday A.D. Posts: 2,145	True, the more "active" gifteds do make for a swift game. Having the Sherriffs and something else is probably more beneficial to a game with a whooole lot more players. If one insists on lots of gifteds, a "Cobbler" might be a good addition to the WW's side, but then it's probably going too far. "Fea is a werewolf!" "No, I'm the hunter." "I thought you were the guardian?" "No, I, Kath am the guardian" "Sauce and the phantom are the sherriffs!" "I'm a werewolf! I'm a werewolf!" "Shut up Nilp, we know you're the cobbler." "Isn't ANYONE a regular villager??" Sounds like godmodding in an RPG... __________________ But all the while I sit and think of times there were before I listen for returning feet and voices at the door Last edited by Oddwen; 07-18-2005 at 09:56 AM.