Red Flows the Sirannon Planning/Discussion Thread - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Gwydion · 07-12-2005, 03:58 PM

Check your PM's please.

Thanks!

~*~ Pio

Durelin · 07-12-2005, 05:33 PM

Quote:

I'm a little unclear when (what year) you expect Elrond and troops to show up in Ost-in-Edhil.

Is it this year that we're starting the game?

Okey...here's a run-down.

Eriador is invaded and Elrond is sent to Eregion: 1695 SA

That is where we start. For the Elves of Lindon, this is when the council takes place, and the forces are prepared, and they begin the march.

For the Elves of Lorien, they will be preparing a force to leave. The dwarves will be doing the same, and then will meet the Elves of Lorien at the east gate of Moria to lead them through, and then the two groups will travel together to Ost-in-Edhil (when exactly in real time they will reach Ost-in-Edhil depends on how the game is moving). Once the Elves and Dwarves reach the city, they will join the forces that are being gathered from Eregion to garrison in Ost-in-Edhil, as well as helping to bring in refugees. Small groups might venture to take down Orc raiding parties...again, depends on how the game is moving along.

For the Elves of Eregion, they will be experiencing some changes. They will be mustering troops, they will be refugees coming from the lands outside Ost-in-Edhil in Eregion or they will be finding places for refugees to stay or they will be becoming soldiers if they are not already.

We're going to say that all of this takes place late in 1695 to keep things simple.

Depending on how the game moves along, we will make a *time jump*.

Eregion is destroyed and Celebrimbor is killed, Imladris is founded: SA 1697

We will go from setting up practically right to the action: preparing for the siege, and as soon as is convenient (again, all depends on how the game is moving), we begin the actual battle. This will all be occuring early in the year, again, to keep things simple.

The details of the battle will be dealt with before the battle starts, of course, but there is no need to do so now.

But, since Elrond and his forces obviously did not save Eregion from being destroyed, the Elves of Lindon will arrive in Ost-in-Edhil in 1697. With a reasonable size force and that many miles to travel, it isn't far-fetched for them to take many months to reach the city (leaving late in 1695 and arriving early in 1697). And, of course, it is likely that they will run into some small resistance before actually reaching the city.

The details of what exactly will occur concerning the arrival of the Lindon forces and the escape from Ost-in-Edhil will be dealt with when the time comes, as well.

Please let me know if you're confused about anything, if anything doesn't seem to work out (which is of course quite possible...in fact I almost expect it!), etc. Ask me questions on the thread or via PM.

Gwydion - Please check your PMs (in a few minutes).

Envinyatar · 07-13-2005, 02:03 AM

It is 500 miles at the most from Lindon to Eregion. At an extremely conservative march of 10 miles/day, it will only take about 2 months to arrive.

So, even if the Lindon force of 500 warriors sets out very late in the year 1695 -- they would surely arrive sometime in the first two months of 1696. I'm thinking they were not meant to be a last minute arrival rescue force, but were garrisoned in Ost-in-Edhil until Sauron's forces overwhelmed the city in 1697.

What do you think?

Mithalwen · 07-13-2005, 06:18 AM

Taht was my impression from the time frame, Envinyatar..

CaptainofDespair · 07-13-2005, 07:18 AM

Even at the pace you suggest, Envinyatar, let us take dark age/medieval marches into consideration, since Tolkien's works emanate from that rough time period. Historically, many of them take forever. But not because of distance necessarily. Most of this comes from the managing of supplies, the need to acquire travel, the mustering of troops, among other things. Also, we must consider that they would be traveling during the 'winter months', and most military operations do not take place in that time. Even elves would be wary of a winter march. Even under such dire circumstances, 'ancient' warriors would be unlikely to march in the winter, because it causes extra problems that often can't be dealt with in a timely manner.

So, I believe that setting out in late 1695 is both problematic, and unlikely. Under the circumstances, the beginning of spring for 1696, or possibly the fall of 1695, would be better. The weather is better suited to both marching and fighting, should it occur.

Just my thoughts...

Folwren · 07-13-2005, 07:58 AM

The Captain is probably right. Moving an army of that size, even if they are elves who don't necessarily eat a great amount or get sick very easily, would be extremely difficult. Depending on how big it is, you have to have enough food for all of them. They have to have all their weapons and armor, and then because they don't know how long the battle or war is going to take, they've got to have plans for the food and supplies to be continued while they're out there. Granted, all these problems could be figured out before hand and we could pretend we don't have to worry about it, but we have to consider the effort that it would take to move such a number of people.

Envinyatar · 07-13-2005, 09:49 AM

Quote:

From Durelin's previous post:

But, since Elrond and his forces obviously did not save Eregion from being destroyed, the Elves of Lindon will arrive in Ost-in-Edhil in 1697. With a reasonable size force and that many miles to travel, it isn't far-fetched for them to take many months to reach the city (leaving late in 1695 and arriving early in 1697). And, of course, it is likely that they will run into some small resistance before actually reaching the city.

My point is, though, If the army of 500 Elves leaves in late 1695 (And 1695 is the date set by Tolkien for Elrond to be sent), surely it will not take them over a year to reach Eregion, which is what the arrival in early 1697 would mean.

However, if that is what you wish to do - then please let me know.

07-12-2005, 03:58 PM	#1
Gwydion Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: At someplace,somewhere,at somepoint in time Posts: 12	Check your PM's please. Thanks! ~~ Pio Last edited by piosenniel; 07-13-2005 at 02:48 AM.*

07-13-2005, 02:03 AM	#3
Envinyatar Quill Revenant Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wandering through the Downs..... Posts: 849	It is 500 miles at the most from Lindon to Eregion. At an extremely conservative march of 10 miles/day, it will only take about 2 months to arrive. So, even if the Lindon force of 500 warriors sets out very late in the year 1695 -- they would surely arrive sometime in the first two months of 1696. I'm thinking they were not meant to be a last minute arrival rescue force, but were garrisoned in Ost-in-Edhil until Sauron's forces overwhelmed the city in 1697. What do you think? __________________ ‘Many are the strange chances of the world,’ said Mithrandir, ‘and help oft shall come from the hands of the weak when the Wise falter.’ – Gandalf in: The Silmarillion, 'Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age' Last edited by Envinyatar; 07-13-2005 at 02:10 AM.

07-13-2005, 06:18 AM	#4
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	Taht was my impression from the time frame, Envinyatar.. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

07-13-2005, 07:58 AM	#6
Folwren Messenger of Hope Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a tiny, insignificant little town in one of the many States. Posts: 5,076	The Captain is probably right. Moving an army of that size, even if they are elves who don't necessarily eat a great amount or get sick very easily, would be extremely difficult. Depending on how big it is, you have to have enough food for all of them. They have to have all their weapons and armor, and then because they don't know how long the battle or war is going to take, they've got to have plans for the food and supplies to be continued while they're out there. Granted, all these problems could be figured out before hand and we could pretend we don't have to worry about it, but we have to consider the effort that it would take to move such a number of people. __________________ A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. - C.S. Lewis

07-13-2005, 07:18 AM	#5
CaptainofDespair Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 413	Even at the pace you suggest, Envinyatar, let us take dark age/medieval marches into consideration, since Tolkien's works emanate from that rough time period. Historically, many of them take forever. But not because of distance necessarily. Most of this comes from the managing of supplies, the need to acquire travel, the mustering of troops, among other things. Also, we must consider that they would be traveling during the 'winter months', and most military operations do not take place in that time. Even elves would be wary of a winter march. Even under such dire circumstances, 'ancient' warriors would be unlikely to march in the winter, because it causes extra problems that often can't be dealt with in a timely manner. So, I believe that setting out in late 1695 is both problematic, and unlikely. Under the circumstances, the beginning of spring for 1696, or possibly the fall of 1695, would be better. The weather is better suited to both marching and fighting, should it occur. Just my thoughts...