Tolkien-founder of new religion? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

daeron · 07-11-2005, 10:59 PM

Turgon, the Bible says the earth is less than 10.000 years old. We have fossil evidence dating to older times. Then what geographic evidinces are you talking about.

Of courses there have been floods all over the world, and maybe ice age receding might be a common flood witnessed worldwide, but people have lived through (not only Noah), and can't they frame fictional stories basing upon such natural calmities. Can't fictional work be designed on history and geography to make it sound true. People have always wanted some supernatural, all powerful being to blame things on, to relieve themselves and they devised God. Some people took advantage and procaimed themselves heads (may not be selfishly, but because they believed more than others).

Our religious scriptures have had thousands of years to be formulated, to achieve the final completed and revised "edition". Just think, what will happen to Tolkien's works a couple of millenia later. Might be the new Bible. Someone can revise them, rewrite them adding "ideal life preachings", maybe add a New Testament after a thousand years basing on someone who considers himself a prophet of Eru. At present you might not believe in the religion , but think 2000 years down the line. You are used to your religion, but think how many religions there are in the world and how many have passed out or given way to new ones.

Why can't people accept Jesus as a normal human being who accomplished all that he did just by the purity of his heart and his will for good? That should motivate people to lead better lives a lot more than when someone gives up all actions to God. I believe Jesus believed in God and used him as the instument of his preachings rather than the other way round. Mind you , I am not against Jesus, I think such people are great and rare but I think it is a lot more comforting knowing he was human.

Sorry if I got into religion bashing and hurt your feelings. But bad habits die hard.

Lyta_Underhill · 07-12-2005, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Its something I've wondered myself -whether at soem point in the future, say a post apocalyptic world - only Tolkien's books were to be found - all other religions have been forgotten - would people latch onto them & take them as 'fact'?

They do seem to have the proper structure for such a use, don't they?

As I was reading through this thread (quickly, as I must again leave soon...), I got the distinct impression that religions were the result of man's elaboration on a theme, a need to add oneself and one's current situation to the mix of ancient lore in order to validate one's own place in the universe. In merchant terms, this might be the same effect as a "good idea" taken by a large firm and marketed to the masses for profit. I hate to make such a comparison, but it is one that came to mind (my apologies for offending anyone with above statement). But it does seem that Man cannot leave anything alone. He has to add things and elaborate on things and ideas. It is in his nature. Whether by word of mouth over a period of centuries or by word of mouth over a period of weeks when a new fad hits the airwaves, it seems that a percentage of people will always "pick up on it" and add to it. Successful TV series spawn "spinoffs," just as there have been many "knock-off" Lord of the Rings inspired fiction and perhaps religion as well. It just seems to be a part of human nature.

That won't stop me from forming my own ideas about Tolkien's works with relation to my own life--although I am a hobbit, I am also human (

)! Now, about those UFO's....

Cheers!
Lyta

Formendacil · 07-12-2005, 12:12 PM

daeron- check your private messages.

Personally, I don't see any likelihood that the Lord of the Rings will ever be turned into a religion. Nor COULD it ever have been in the past, in my opinion, since it could not have been written by any other than a 20th century man with Tolkien's learning and background. Therefore, it could not have existed in a more "primitive" time (primitive technology does not equal a primitive people), therefore it could not have started a religion.

~Bemused,

Formendacil~

davem · 07-12-2005, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Therefore, it could not have existed in a more "primitive" time (primitive technology does not equal a primitive people), therefore it could not have started a religion.

Yet one of Tolkien's motivations was not simply to 'invent' a new mythology, but to 'recreate' what had been (see Shippey's essay in Tolkien Studies 1 for example). So, he was attempting to reconstruct what our ancestors had once believed. From that perspective he was recreating (as best he could) a once existing religion/belief system. Maybe he was more accurate than he could have hoped - who knows? And if people had once believed something more or less like his creation, why might they not do so again - in the 'right' circumstances? Certainly, the beliefs of many modern 'Pagans' is very like what we find in Tolkien's work, & while, in the west, Christianity is in decline (apart from fundamentalist versions of traditional religions) Paganism/the 'New Age movement is growing apace.

Maybe Tolkien's mythology won't be adopted by our descendants 'lock, stock & barrel', but its quite possible that something quite similar will be by a great many of them, As I say, its already happening....

Now, I'm not saying I approve of that, but I do think its interesting that its happening.

alatar · 07-12-2005, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davem

Maybe Tolkien's mythology won't be adopted by our descendants 'lock, stock & barrel', but its quite possible that something quite similar will be by a great many of them, As I say, its already happening....

Note that you can buy a "WWGD" wristband/bracelet at alatar's gift shop (located just south right next to Radagast's Petting Zoo) for a cool $19.95 (US dollars).

Be the first person in your office or school to wear one of these provocative loops around your wrist - the one-size-fits-all fits some ankles too. Enjoy the calming magical effect of this completely hypoallergenic piece of philosophy and wisdom. Show your Middle Earth pride in three choices of colors - blue, grey or brown.

And when those dark clouds, orcs or balrogs show up on your horizon, simply look down at your arm and consider...

Just what would Gandalf do?

07-11-2005, 10:59 PM	#1
daeron Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: india Posts: 35	Turgon, the Bible says the earth is less than 10.000 years old. We have fossil evidence dating to older times. Then what geographic evidinces are you talking about. Of courses there have been floods all over the world, and maybe ice age receding might be a common flood witnessed worldwide, but people have lived through (not only Noah), and can't they frame fictional stories basing upon such natural calmities. Can't fictional work be designed on history and geography to make it sound true. People have always wanted some supernatural, all powerful being to blame things on, to relieve themselves and they devised God. Some people took advantage and procaimed themselves heads (may not be selfishly, but because they believed more than others). Our religious scriptures have had thousands of years to be formulated, to achieve the final completed and revised "edition". Just think, what will happen to Tolkien's works a couple of millenia later. Might be the new Bible. Someone can revise them, rewrite them adding "ideal life preachings", maybe add a New Testament after a thousand years basing on someone who considers himself a prophet of Eru. At present you might not believe in the religion , but think 2000 years down the line. You are used to your religion, but think how many religions there are in the world and how many have passed out or given way to new ones. Why can't people accept Jesus as a normal human being who accomplished all that he did just by the purity of his heart and his will for good? That should motivate people to lead better lives a lot more than when someone gives up all actions to God. I believe Jesus believed in God and used him as the instument of his preachings rather than the other way round. Mind you , I am not against Jesus, I think such people are great and rare but I think it is a lot more comforting knowing he was human. Sorry if I got into religion bashing and hurt your feelings. But bad habits die hard. __________________ Half-brother in blood, full brother in heart will I be. Thou shalt lead and I will follow. May no new grief divide us. Last edited by daeron; 07-12-2005 at 09:20 AM.

07-12-2005, 12:12 PM	#3
Formendacil Dead Serious Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Perched on Thangorodrim's towers. Posts: 3,328	daeron- check your private messages. Personally, I don't see any likelihood that the Lord of the Rings will ever be turned into a religion. Nor COULD it ever have been in the past, in my opinion, since it could not have been written by any other than a 20th century man with Tolkien's learning and background. Therefore, it could not have existed in a more "primitive" time (primitive technology does not equal a primitive people), therefore it could not have started a religion. ~Bemused, Formendacil~ __________________ I prefer history, true or feigned.