Old Tom bombadil is a...?!?! - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Formendacil · 07-09-2005, 12:14 PM

I believe that the truth of the matter is that Tom Bombadil is a "Merry" fellow. In other words, he is most obviously Merry's alter ego.

After all, it was Merry who led the Hobbits into the Old Forest. Merry had "disappeared" (they say he was in the willow, but we only have Pippin's word for it- the Fool of a Took). Thereafter, in the House of Thomas Meriadoc Brandywine-Bombadil, we are given no scenes of Merry and Tom directly interactly. I would theorise that Merry's accomplice Goldberry (aka Estella Bolger- also known as Fatty*) used some rather potent brews to confuse the Hobbit's minds and make them think that Merry was with them as well as Tom.

Now, it must be obvious therefore that Estella was again playing a covert role when Merry, Pippin, and Sam are captured by the Barrow-Wight, since Merry ole Tom shows up not long after to save the day.

Finally, at the edge of the Old Forest, under the cover of dusk, Merry and Estella again trade places, so that Goldberry/Estella/Fatty remains behind (and gives word to Gandalf) while Merry continues on.

Obviously, this was the whole reason that Merry goes on the quest, so that Tom Bombadil can face and defeat the Witchking. One may ask why he didn't do it at Weathertop, but the answer is that he was still being affected by lingering effects of the Prancing Pony's ale. Besides, he didn't want to blow his cover.

Gandalf obviously knew about this, which is why he was so adamant that the Ring be destroyed and not sent to Tom. After all, Tom was right there with them. Furthermore, at the end of the story, when Gandalf disappears to "visit Tom", the reason we are never shown the scene is that it never happened- Gandalf was actually visiting Estella, who, as Fatty, was actually in the Lockholes at that time. Hence, Gandalf was actually helping to save the Shire, not just buggering off leaving the responsibility to Pippin and Sam.

There you have it. Tom Bombadil is Merry Brandybuck with boots and a beard.

*That Fatty is actually Estella may be easily shown by the fact that Fatty is never referred to by Fredegar. Besides, why do you think that Merry went ahead with "Fatty" instead of hanging out with his closer chums Frodo and Pippin?

Gurthang · 07-09-2005, 12:39 PM

There is but one conclusion that can be drawn. Only one. Evidence clearly shows that Tom is none other than Sauron himself! I shall explain.

Clearly, if Tom was Merry or a famous runner, both mortal, he would have disappeared under the Ring's dreadful power. Yet the fact that he did not vanish points out that he was not mortal, cancelling out any possibilities of Merry or a futuristic fasty.Also, upon wearing the Ring, Bombadil exhibited no desire whatsoever to keep it from Frodo, a feat Gandalf did not even attempt! The Ring had no power over Tom, because Tom was truly its maker.

Now, you're thinking, 'if it was Sauron, he would have taken the Ring right then'. But no, he would not. He was in a weak state(due to lack-of-Ring-itus), and would need time to recover from his illness. Even taking back the Ring, he would have been enormously defenseless during his long trek home. He foresaw that they would bring the Ring closer to him, and he let them do so.

Now he was there mostly for recon work, and for his longing to hold his Precious, if for only a time. Once he was certain that the Ring would be taken somewhere(as opposed to thrown into the sea) he was satisfied to watch. At this time he also pointed his Nazgul directly to the Ring. This is why they caught up to the Hobbits at Bree, very soon after their separation from Tom.

This case is solved, Bombadil was Sauron.

Meneltarmacil · 07-09-2005, 01:17 PM

The arguments for Tom being Sauron are interesting, but a different interpretation would probably be warranted in this case. Sauron really would not have been in much danger on the way south, as the Nazgul would have protected him adequately. No, Tom probably represents someone else, close to Sauron but not quite.

Let's look at the facts:

-Unaffected by the Ring but not interested in it

-Trying very hard to seem unnoticed

-Does not really fit in with the rest of the world

-Mysterious origins that he does not want to talk about

-Helps Frodo on his way

-Has power over the Barrow-Wight, along with other mysterious abilities

All this seems to show that Tom is trying very hard to hide his true nature and powers and to keep well out of the way of anyone until the time is right. Therefore, I propose that Tom is really Morgoth. If anyone were to learn that he had escaped from the Void, the Valar would soon come and lock him up again. So he pretends to be a good person and hides much of his power. He does not have access to his former resources, and knows that Sauron, now interested only in himself, would betray him if he asked for help. Morgoth needs to get Sauron out of the way and then assume command of the armies of Mordor before starting a new reign of darkness. That is why he allows Frodo to continue safely on his way with the Ring.

the guy who be short · 07-09-2005, 02:37 PM

Ah! I just remembered about this! The Subconscious works in strange ways...

For those interested, a very strong case for the Witch-King of Angmar and Tom being the same person is presented on the site.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 07-10-2005, 08:09 AM

Ah yes, I seem to remember making a hash of a presentation of that argument a few years back and being brutalised (completely fairly) by none other than burrahobbit!

It still lies somewhere on the Downs...

'Tis a brilliant site tgwbs.

But on topic: I had always thought that the House of Tom Bombadil was a dream. As we know the Hobbits were trapped by the Barrow-wight in the Downs. They were put to sleep; so it seems clear to me that the shenanigans did not actually happen in reality. I mean, Tom Bombadil and Goldberry do not make sense! Wild nightmares are the obvious answer.

As for Fatty Lumpkin, I imagine the Hobbits just found him in a field somewhere.

the guy who be short · 07-20-2005, 11:34 AM

I return to you with a new theory.

True, Bombadillo could be any of the mentioned above (well, actually, no, I'm about to disprove you all... here it comes!) but then, why does the Ring not affect him?

Merry would surely be affected by a ring, as would the Witchking or Fredegar.

No, you see, Tom Bombadil is... Eru Iluvatar. Yes! It makes complete sense.

Observe: The Ring was forged by Sauron, one of the greatest of the Maiar. It affects him. Therefore, it must affect all other Maiar as well as lesser beings. This means that no creature save one of the most hallowed could be unaffected! But the Valar were all in Valinor, meaning that Tom must be a physical manifestation of Eru himself.

Eru came to Arda to spread his Truth - that is, to preach the advantages of Nudity to all that passed by. Unfortunately, due to the hobbits' later adventures, they completely forgot to introduce nudity to the Shire, and as a race they were forever condemned to the Void after Death...

Formendacil · 07-20-2005, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the guy who be short

Eru came to Arda to spread his Truth - that is, to preach the advantages of Nudity to all that passed by. Unfortunately, due to the hobbits' later adventures, they completely forgot to introduce nudity to the Shire, and as a race they were forever condemned to the Void after Death...

Well, were this the case, he would appear to have at least STARTED his mission, since Hobbits, the nearest residents to the Old Forest, go around without shoes, socks, boots, nylons, sandals, or any other foot-paraphrenalia. All except those heretic Stoors.

I imagine his next task would have been to convince them to lose all their headgear...

dancing spawn of ungoliant · 07-20-2005, 12:45 PM

Oh, how wrong you all can be! It is rather clear that Tom Bombadil is a lively Ent in disguise. And this is what lead me to that conclusion.

An Ent isn't a regular human-like being so he can't be affected by the ring.

Ents, as we know, are "tree-like people whose purpose was to protect the forests of Middle-earth." (Encyclopedia of Arda) What else is Tom Bombadil doing than prancing around his lands and maintaining public order?

Bombadil fusses about nature all the time and he is able to talk to trees and command them.

"Tom Bombadil came trotting round the corner of the house, waving his arms as if he was warding off the rain." (FotR, In the house of Tom Bombadil) This is natural. Air pressures have a tendency to level down wich causes wind (from high pressure to low pressure). Wind makes clouds and treetops move. Do the math.

He wears colourful and distinctive clothes to draw attention away from his features which would of course give away the fact that he is an ent.

"In his own house, rather than a hat, he wore a crown of autumn leaves." (EoA) Well, duh! He is a tree. Of course there are leaves on his head.

Tom Bombadil is an ent.

Quod erat domonstrandum.

07-09-2005, 12:14 PM	#1
Formendacil Dead Serious Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Perched on Thangorodrim's towers. Posts: 3,328	I believe that the truth of the matter is that Tom Bombadil is a "Merry" fellow. In other words, he is most obviously Merry's alter ego. After all, it was Merry who led the Hobbits into the Old Forest. Merry had "disappeared" (they say he was in the willow, but we only have Pippin's word for it- the Fool of a Took). Thereafter, in the House of Thomas Meriadoc Brandywine-Bombadil, we are given no scenes of Merry and Tom directly interactly. I would theorise that Merry's accomplice Goldberry (aka Estella Bolger- also known as Fatty) used some rather potent brews to confuse the Hobbit's minds and make them think that Merry was with them as well as Tom. Now, it must be obvious therefore that Estella was again playing a covert role when Merry, Pippin, and Sam are captured by the Barrow-Wight, since Merry ole Tom shows up not long after to save the day. Finally, at the edge of the Old Forest, under the cover of dusk, Merry and Estella again trade places, so that Goldberry/Estella/Fatty remains behind (and gives word to Gandalf) while Merry continues on. Obviously, this was the whole reason that Merry goes on the quest, so that Tom Bombadil can face and defeat the Witchking. One may ask why he didn't do it at Weathertop, but the answer is that he was still being affected by lingering effects of the Prancing Pony's ale. Besides, he didn't want to blow his cover. Gandalf obviously knew about this, which is why he was so adamant that the Ring be destroyed and not sent to Tom. After all, Tom was right there with them. Furthermore, at the end of the story, when Gandalf disappears to "visit Tom", the reason we are never shown the scene is that it never happened- Gandalf was actually visiting Estella, who, as Fatty, was actually in the Lockholes at that time. Hence, Gandalf was actually helping to save the Shire, not just buggering off leaving the responsibility to Pippin and Sam. There you have it. Tom Bombadil is Merry Brandybuck with boots and a beard. That Fatty is actually Estella may be easily shown by the fact that Fatty is never referred to by Fredegar. Besides, why do you think that Merry went ahead with "Fatty" instead of hanging out with his closer chums Frodo and Pippin? __________________ I prefer history, true or feigned.

07-09-2005, 12:39 PM	#2
Gurthang Sword of Spirit Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oh, I'm around. Posts: 1,401	There is but one conclusion that can be drawn. Only one. Evidence clearly shows that Tom is none other than Sauron himself! I shall explain. Clearly, if Tom was Merry or a famous runner, both mortal, he would have disappeared under the Ring's dreadful power. Yet the fact that he did not vanish points out that he was not mortal, cancelling out any possibilities of Merry or a futuristic fasty.Also, upon wearing the Ring, Bombadil exhibited no desire whatsoever to keep it from Frodo, a feat Gandalf did not even attempt! The Ring had no power over Tom, because Tom was truly its maker. Now, you're thinking, 'if it was Sauron, he would have taken the Ring right then'. But no, he would not. He was in a weak state(due to lack-of-Ring-itus), and would need time to recover from his illness. Even taking back the Ring, he would have been enormously defenseless during his long trek home. He foresaw that they would bring the Ring closer to him, and he let them do so. Now he was there mostly for recon work, and for his longing to hold his Precious, if for only a time. Once he was certain that the Ring would be taken somewhere(as opposed to thrown into the sea) he was satisfied to watch. At this time he also pointed his Nazgul directly to the Ring. This is why they caught up to the Hobbits at Bree, very soon after their separation from Tom. This case is solved, Bombadil was Sauron. __________________ I'm on a Mission from God.

07-09-2005, 01:17 PM	#3
Meneltarmacil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The bottom of the ocean, discussing philosophy with a giant squid Posts: 2,254	The arguments for Tom being Sauron are interesting, but a different interpretation would probably be warranted in this case. Sauron really would not have been in much danger on the way south, as the Nazgul would have protected him adequately. No, Tom probably represents someone else, close to Sauron but not quite. Let's look at the facts: -Unaffected by the Ring but not interested in it -Trying very hard to seem unnoticed -Does not really fit in with the rest of the world -Mysterious origins that he does not want to talk about -Helps Frodo on his way -Has power over the Barrow-Wight, along with other mysterious abilities All this seems to show that Tom is trying very hard to hide his true nature and powers and to keep well out of the way of anyone until the time is right. Therefore, I propose that Tom is really Morgoth. If anyone were to learn that he had escaped from the Void, the Valar would soon come and lock him up again. So he pretends to be a good person and hides much of his power. He does not have access to his former resources, and knows that Sauron, now interested only in himself, would betray him if he asked for help. Morgoth needs to get Sauron out of the way and then assume command of the armies of Mordor before starting a new reign of darkness. That is why he allows Frodo to continue safely on his way with the Ring. __________________ I ♣ baby seals.

07-10-2005, 08:09 AM	#5
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Ah yes, I seem to remember making a hash of a presentation of that argument a few years back and being brutalised (completely fairly) by none other than burrahobbit! It still lies somewhere on the Downs... 'Tis a brilliant site tgwbs. But on topic: I had always thought that the House of Tom Bombadil was a dream. As we know the Hobbits were trapped by the Barrow-wight in the Downs. They were put to sleep; so it seems clear to me that the shenanigans did not actually happen in reality. I mean, Tom Bombadil and Goldberry do not make sense! Wild nightmares are the obvious answer. As for Fatty Lumpkin, I imagine the Hobbits just found him in a field somewhere. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

07-20-2005, 12:45 PM	#8
dancing spawn of ungoliant Mischievous Candle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: So near to Russia, so far from Japan, quite a long way from Cairo, lots of miles from Vietnam. Posts: 1,234	Oh, how wrong you all can be! It is rather clear that Tom Bombadil is a lively Ent in disguise. And this is what lead me to that conclusion. An Ent isn't a regular human-like being so he can't be affected by the ring. Ents, as we know, are "tree-like people whose purpose was to protect the forests of Middle-earth." (Encyclopedia of Arda) What else is Tom Bombadil doing than prancing around his lands and maintaining public order? Bombadil fusses about nature all the time and he is able to talk to trees and command them. "Tom Bombadil came trotting round the corner of the house, waving his arms as if he was warding off the rain." (FotR, In the house of Tom Bombadil) This is natural. Air pressures have a tendency to level down wich causes wind (from high pressure to low pressure). Wind makes clouds and treetops move. Do the math. He wears colourful and distinctive clothes to draw attention away from his features which would of course give away the fact that he is an ent. "In his own house, rather than a hat, he wore a crown of autumn leaves." (EoA) Well, duh! He is a tree. Of course there are leaves on his head. Tom Bombadil is an ent. Quod erat domonstrandum. __________________ Fenris Wolf

07-09-2005, 02:37 PM	#4
the guy who be short Shadowed Prince Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Thulcandra Posts: 2,343	Ah! I just remembered about this! The Subconscious works in strange ways... For those interested, a very strong case for the Witch-King of Angmar and Tom being the same person is presented on the site.

07-20-2005, 11:34 AM	#6
the guy who be short Shadowed Prince Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Thulcandra Posts: 2,343	I return to you with a new theory. True, Bombadillo could be any of the mentioned above (well, actually, no, I'm about to disprove you all... here it comes!) but then, why does the Ring not affect him? Merry would surely be affected by a ring, as would the Witchking or Fredegar. No, you see, Tom Bombadil is... Eru Iluvatar. Yes! It makes complete sense. Observe: The Ring was forged by Sauron, one of the greatest of the Maiar. It affects him. Therefore, it must affect all other Maiar as well as lesser beings. This means that no creature save one of the most hallowed could be unaffected! But the Valar were all in Valinor, meaning that Tom must be a physical manifestation of Eru himself. Eru came to Arda to spread his Truth - that is, to preach the advantages of Nudity to all that passed by. Unfortunately, due to the hobbits' later adventures, they completely forgot to introduce nudity to the Shire, and as a race they were forever condemned to the Void after Death...