Placebo effect and other theories - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Meneltarmacil · 07-06-2005, 06:08 PM

Getting back to the original topic, I think that it would be hard for Bilbo, unaccustomed to sneaking around unseen, to have stayed completely undetected until he had jumped right over Gollum's head, as Gollum was probably a lot more familiar with his surroundings and was very well accustomed to seeing things in the dark. Also, the reactions from the Goblins (they saw him, then they didn't see him as soon as he put on the Ring) immediately afterward should make it clear that the Ring's powers were real and not just part of a "placebo effect" which only Bilbo would have experienced.

Alcarillo · 07-06-2005, 06:38 PM

Also, wouldn't Bilbo need to know that the Ring made him invisible before he put it on in order for this placebo effect to occur? Or maybe I just don't understand how it works.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 07-07-2005, 09:19 AM

Mirth (if that).

Holbytlass · 07-08-2005, 10:35 PM

By the very nature of a 'placebo effect', a person needs to know what something may be able to do for the mind-set to work ie: this pill will make a person sleepy, it's sugar and yet the person sleeps because of the mind-set that they will.

The people in The Prancing Pony did not know Frodo had the one ring, and I'm sure most didn't know it could make the wearer invisable, therefore, when Frodo disappeared it really happened because no one stated, 'Frodo has a ring that will make him invisible'.

Morsul the Dark · 08-02-2005, 03:30 PM

The Scond theory I had was this if Entwives(this theory is more serious mind you) enjoy nice orderly things then isnt it possible to say ents are more hasty than entwives? so therefore it is possible entwives are not lost merely treeish? remember Treebeard thinks they are in the old forest by buckland maybe they are jut to treeish to be noticed?

Holbytlass · 08-04-2005, 07:56 AM

Interesting theory, but the idea that because Entwives like things orderly and therefore tree-ish seems, well, odd.
I'm thinking on very general terms of gender stereotypes. How many females (big example, moms) who like things to be orderly just sit around? I know that to get something in order whether home, business or anything takes alot of time, effort and energy, so I don't see the Entwives as just standing around being tree-ish expecting the land to become ordered.
And in this instance, why do you think that Ents are hastier?

Morsul the Dark · 08-04-2005, 03:03 PM

excellent point

... I suppose this is my reasoning ents let things grow wild which I connected with them being wild and order being associated with solemn calm...Perhaps I lookked at this from the wrong angle... You are right to keep things orderly one would have to be more active....

07-06-2005, 06:08 PM	#1
Meneltarmacil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The bottom of the ocean, discussing philosophy with a giant squid Posts: 2,254	Clues from The Hobbit Getting back to the original topic, I think that it would be hard for Bilbo, unaccustomed to sneaking around unseen, to have stayed completely undetected until he had jumped right over Gollum's head, as Gollum was probably a lot more familiar with his surroundings and was very well accustomed to seeing things in the dark. Also, the reactions from the Goblins (they saw him, then they didn't see him as soon as he put on the Ring) immediately afterward should make it clear that the Ring's powers were real and not just part of a "placebo effect" which only Bilbo would have experienced. __________________ I ♣ baby seals.

07-07-2005, 09:19 AM	#3
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Mirth (if that). __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

07-08-2005, 10:35 PM	#4
Holbytlass Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Party Tree Posts: 1,042	By the very nature of a 'placebo effect', a person needs to know what something may be able to do for the mind-set to work ie: this pill will make a person sleepy, it's sugar and yet the person sleeps because of the mind-set that they will. The people in The Prancing Pony did not know Frodo had the one ring, and I'm sure most didn't know it could make the wearer invisable, therefore, when Frodo disappeared it really happened because no one stated, 'Frodo has a ring that will make him invisible'. __________________ Holby is an actual flesh-and-blood person, right? Not, say a sock-puppet of Nilp’s, by any chance? ~Nerwen, WWCIII

08-02-2005, 03:30 PM	#5
Morsul the Dark Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,448	The Scond theory I had was this if Entwives(this theory is more serious mind you) enjoy nice orderly things then isnt it possible to say ents are more hasty than entwives? so therefore it is possible entwives are not lost merely treeish? remember Treebeard thinks they are in the old forest by buckland maybe they are jut to treeish to be noticed? __________________ Morsul the Resurrected

08-04-2005, 07:56 AM	#6
Holbytlass Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Party Tree Posts: 1,042	Interesting theory, but the idea that because Entwives like things orderly and therefore tree-ish seems, well, odd. I'm thinking on very general terms of gender stereotypes. How many females (big example, moms) who like things to be orderly just sit around? I know that to get something in order whether home, business or anything takes alot of time, effort and energy, so I don't see the Entwives as just standing around being tree-ish expecting the land to become ordered. And in this instance, why do you think that Ents are hastier? __________________ Holby is an actual flesh-and-blood person, right? Not, say a sock-puppet of Nilp’s, by any chance? ~Nerwen, WWCIII

07-06-2005, 06:38 PM	#2
Alcarillo Shadow of the Past Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Minas Mor-go Posts: 1,007	Also, wouldn't Bilbo need to know that the Ring made him invisible before he put it on in order for this placebo effect to occur? Or maybe I just don't understand how it works.

08-04-2005, 03:03 PM	#7
Morsul the Dark Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,448	excellent point ... I suppose this is my reasoning ents let things grow wild which I connected with them being wild and order being associated with solemn calm...Perhaps I lookked at this from the wrong angle... You are right to keep things orderly one would have to be more active.... __________________ Morsul the Resurrected