LotR -- Book 5 - Chapter 02 - The Passing of the Grey Company

[davem]

Originally Posted by Guinevere

Halbarad, too, does what he feels to be his duty, even if it may cost his life:

You remind me of a point I wanted to bring up here: Habarad does die on the Fields of Pelennor - was this an example of foresight, or simply pessimism that proved true? If it was the former then it shows amazing courage to go forward with Aragorn. I suspect this was a case of foresight, as why else would Tolkien put that scene in?

Something which makes me wonder, is the stone of Erech: a globe that has the heighth of a man, and has been brought from Númenor and set up by Isildur himself.. Surely there must have been a reason to take this heavy thing aboard a ship when fleeing from disaster? It must have had special power, I guess. And did that power have anything to do with the effect of the oath they swore upon that stone?

I seem to remember from HoMe that the Stone of Erech was originally to be a Palantir...

[Lalwendë]

'All is well,' said Aragorn, turning back. 'Here are some of my own kin from the far land where I dwelt. But why they come, and how many they be, Halbarad shall tell us.'

'I have thirty with me,' said Halbarad. 'That is all of our kindred that could be gathered in haste; but the brethren Elladan and Elrohir have ridden with us, desiring to go to the war. We rode as swiftly as we might when your summons came.'

'But I did not summon you,' said Aragorn, 'save only in wish. My thoughts have often turned to you, and seldom more than tonight; yet I have sent no word.

Here I get the sense that many are looking out for Aragorn, prepared to give him help where he did not seek it or ask for it, but where others can see it is needed. At first it seems Aragorn has summoned his kindred himself, but it appears they have been brought here at the instigation of Galadriel. As an aside, it is still possible that she had read Aragorn's 'wishes' in the field; he would have had considerable powers of osanwe having lived amongst the Elves, but I would assume Galdriel had greater such skills and he could not block his mind to her, even if he wished.

Yet Aragorn has not asked for his kindred to ride to him, it has been done on his behalf. This throws into relief Gandalf's parting words about the Palantir. He has acted as a mentor to Aragorn, it also appears that Galadriel and Elrond are doing the same. The ways of Elves and Men may have parted, but in some cases they clearly have not.

'I bring word to you from my father: The days are short. If thou art in haste, remember the Paths of the Dead.'
'Always my days have seemed to me too short to achieve my desire,' answered Aragorn. 'But great indeed will be my haste ere I take that road.'
'That will soon be seen,' said Elrohir. 'But let us speak no more of these things upon the open road!'

Even Elladan and Elrohir seem 'in' on the higher powers which are hoping to guide Aragorn. They do not only bring a message to him but when Aragorn expresses his doubts, they dismiss them. Is there anything wrong in the actions of the Elves in guiding Aragorn to such a great extent? Here we have a Man with the greatest potential of his time, and yet the Elves are giving him much more than strategic guidance.

However, in this chapter we also get to see Aragorn's growing self assurance:

You forget to whom you speak,' said Aragorn sternly, and his eyes glinted. 'What did you fear that I should say to him? Did I not openly proclaim my title before the doors of Edoras? Nay, Gimli,' he said in a softer voice, and the grimness left his face, and he looked like one who has laboured in sleepless pain for many nights. 'Nay, my friends, I am the lawful master of the Stone, and I had both the right and the strength to use it, or so I judged. The right cannot be doubted. The strength was enough--barely.'

When he speaks to Gimli here at first he is harsh, even boastful, and he brings up the mistake he almost made at Edoras. These are hints of the older Aragorn who is now slowly changing into the kingly Man he will become. Maybe it is the renewed influence of the familiar Dunedain which causes him to slip back into his old manner for a moment? But his arrogance soon falls away again and he states the facts as he saw them, that he was entitled to use the Palantir, and he emphasises just how difficult it was for him to use it. He shows that the experience has humbled him.

'If you would understand them better, then I bid you come with me,' said Aragorn; 'for that way I now shall take. But I do not go gladly; only need drives me. Therefore, only of your free will would I have you come, for you will find both toil and great fear, and maybe worse.'

Aragorn now makes the first use of this leadership tactic, offering the chance to turn down a mission, just as he does on the way to the Black Gate. This also shows his growing confidence. He is assured that Legolas and Gimli are his friends and would not think of turning aside, and he is confident enough to make it so that they would also find it hard to refuse in any case.

Bells were ringing far below, and all men fled before the face of Aragorn; but the Grey Company in their haste rode like hunters, until their horses were stumbling with weariness. And thus, just ere midnight, and in a darkness as black as the caverns in the mountains, they came at last to the Hill of Erech.

What I want to know is what would have happened to the Grey Company if they had not reached the Stone of Erech before midnight?

[davem]

Just in passing, I have to quote Aragorn's response to Gimli after looking in the Palantir from an early draft:

'You looked in the Stone?' said Gimli, amazed, awestruck & rather alarmed. 'What did you tell - him?'

'What did I tell him? said Aragorn sternly, & his eyes glinted. ' That I had a rascal of a rebel Dwarf here that I would exchange for a couple of good orcs, thank you!...'

Also, on the Stone of Erech, the development of the idea is kind of interesting. Originally it was to have been a Palantir, then there was to have been a Palantir in a Tower at the site. Finally, we just have the great stone. It seems that in Tolkien's mind there was to have been some kind of 'link' between the Palantir of Erech & the Dead. The only thing that springs to mind is that the Palantiri were not simply a means of seeing what was happening in the present moment, but also, in some way, retained images of the past - things that had been seen in them. Maybe the Stone of Erech would have shown the original meeting of Isildur & the men of the Mountain, kind of duplicating the moment of their swearing of service to Isildur & his heir - pure speculation for novelty value.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by davem

The only thing that springs to mind is that the Palantiri were not simply a means of seeing what was happening in the present moment, but also, in some way, retained images of the past - things that had been seen in them. Maybe the Stone of Erech would have shown the original meeting of Isildur & the men of the Mountain, kind of duplicating the moment of their swearing of service to Isildur & his heir - pure speculation for novelty value.

I don't think you need to speculate. I noticed Gandalf's words in the final chapter of Book 3:

And how it draws one to itself! Have I not felt it? Even now my heart desires to test my will upon it, to see if I could not wrench it from him and turn it where I would--to look across the wide seas of water and of time to Tirion the Fair, and perceive the unimaginable hand and mind of Feanor at their work, while both the White Tree and the Golden were in flower!" He sighed and fell silent.

Gandalf, in wistful fashion, is relating yet another secret which the palantiri hold, that they retain visions of the past.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by myself

Actually, I was under the impression that she was chasing death at the time.

Originally Posted by Guinevere

I'm not quite sure here either. First, Eowyn was dismayed that Aragorn would choose the Paths of the Dead because she was convinced that he would not survive it. Then she offers, nay begs him, to take her with him. Did she mean to die together with him? If he would have ridden to battle with Théoden and Eomer, would she still have wanted to accompany him?

You're probably right about her wanting to die with him. When Aragorn would not allow her, that's when the thoughts of desperation began to appear. That we have seen as she knelt before Aragorn, begging. Had he chosen to wait for Theoden and Eomer, I believe she still would have slipped into her disguise - but this time with two people in mind: her uncle, and Aragorn. (Now a scenario like that would be hard to imagine.)

But what mostly gave me that idea is the statement she will make three times in the next chapter: He is gone.

[davem]

Baldor the Hapless

Lalwende recently came across this reference to Baldor's fate in Tolkien's essay 'The Rivers & Beacon Hills of Gondor'. It was published in Vinyar Tengwar, but I've just found it on-line
http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache...rvo/t/vt42.doc

Note 6: The Men of Darkness built temples, some of great size, usually surrounded by dark trees, often in caverns (natural or delved) in secret valleys of mountain-regions; such as the dreadful halls and passages under the Haunted Mountain beyond the Dark Door (Gate of the Dead) in Dunharrow. The special horror of the closed door before which the skeleton of Baldor was found was probably due to the fact that the door was the entrance to an evil temple hall to which Baldor had come, probably without opposition up to that point. But the door was shut in his face, and enemies that had followed him silently came up and broke his legs and left him to die in the darkness, unable to find any way out.

Not sure who these 'enemies' were - men of Rohan, Dunlendings, Wild Men or 'Men of Darkness'. Certainly its a creepy story.

[Lalwendë]

I liked this (even though it is one of the nastiest, most frightening things I've read by Tolkien). I keep finding these 'hints' about worship of Dark forces in Middle-earth, seemingly most of them are about Men worshipping Sauron. It provides extra depth to the struggle to oust Sauron; it demonstrates yet more how he has managed to corrupt Men to his ways. I wondered if the Men supposedly worshipping in this "evil temple hall" were alive or dead when they did this to Baldor?

[davem]

Late Addendum

Just been reading some of Kipling's short stories, & came across one called The Lost Legion. This concerns a British Army regiment of Indian troops who join the Indian Mutiny ('betraying' their oath of service) & are killed by Afghan rebels. Many years later a British contingent are sent to capture an Afghan warlord. The contingent is ordered to go in at night & capture the warlord & his men without using violence. They approach the camp, making a deal of noise, but the Afghan guards in the watchtowers fail to raise any alarm, & the British cannot understand why no warning is given to those in the camp. It turned out that the watchers were terrified to raise any alarm because of the ghosts of the slain Indian troops were marching around the watchtowers, hence saving the British troops & allowing them to achieve their mission.

Now, one can argue with the 'politics' of the story, but one wonders if Tolkien had read it - we know he had read & enjoyed some of Kipling's other work - like Puck of Pook's Hill. Given Kipling's incredible popularity in Tolkien's youth its entirely possible that this went into the 'leaf mould of the mind'...

[Formendacil]

As horror stories go, I don't think the unspecified fate of Baldor the hapless can easily be beat. For that matter, the entire journey through the Paths of the Dead, though brief in number of pages, always feels much longer, reading through it over Gimli's shoulder. It's enough in one chapter to make me reject my younger claim of being disappointed that we only get Aragorn's ebcounter with Sauron offscreen, so to speak.

But it *is* a major moment in the War of the Ring, as large as Sauron's encounter with Pippin, larger the Ride of the Rohirrim--at least in Sauron's eyes--larger than the death of the Witch-king. And it is passed over somewhat quickly.

This is actually the chronologically earliest chapter in The Return of the King, beginning just after Gandalf dashes with Pippin. It's typical of how Tolkien structures his interweaving plots to go back and restart things from an earlier point and it makes sense to me that Book V opens with a focus on Minas Tirith, which will be the centre of the book's gravity: all action will flow there.

I have a tendency to forget that this chapter has the Aragorn/Eowyn dialogues, but they're always a pleasure to rediscover. It's some of Tolkien's most dramatically layered dialogue. Both characters have far more going on behind them than they speak, and hakf the drama comes from knowing those layers and reading them through what isn't said.