Let's learn Quenya on the Downs

[Child of the 7th Age]

The guy who be short -

Whoops! It's great to hear such enthusiasm but don't get too far ahead of where you are! The old Language forum died because there weren't enough posters to pose serious questions beyond simply asking someone else to do a translation for them. Whether or not there ever would be enough posters to carry on a whole Forum, I don't know. That would be for the B-W to decide.

However, I believe having people work with Quenyan is definitely a step in the right direction as far as taking a more in-depth look at the languages on this site, and many feel that the languages stand at the heart of Tolkien's Legendarium. I appluad your efforts.

Even some of us that won't actively be studying Elvish do have questions about languages. Right now, for example, there seems to be a huge disagreement going on within the Elvish community: linguists like Carl Hostetter who want to toe a "strict" line in terms of what Tolkien gave us and others, like David Salo (the grad student who worked with PJ), who are willing to see the language (especially Sindarin) evolve at least a little beyond what Tolkien gave us. This is a vexing question because Tolkien left so many issues of grammar unresolved. He gave one answer one time and another answer at a different time. Do we pick and choose, or just leave things unresolved? (Sounds just like the discussions in Books! ) And what about the apparently enormous volume of papers that have never been published? I don't think these questions have been discussed in depth on the BD.

The "nuts and bolts" of grammar and vocabulary are the obvious place to start, just as you've suggested. In addition to this announcement thread in the B-D, you might want to have a thread for sharing information and questions about the language itself, perhaps in one of the forums moderated by Esty. ( I'm sure you could pm her to check if you're uncertain.) In any case, great and good luck!

[the guy who be short]

Thanks for that post Child - and now that I think about it, I was getting a little ahead of myself, and I'm not sure exactly what a forum would entail. There's only so much we can say about Quenya - it is doubtful whether this would be enough to fill a sub-forum.

Tolkien himself is quoted as saying that the languages lie at the heart of his writing - that the stories have infact been built up around the language and not vice versa. The debates we could have on the languages also sound interesting.

I'm not sure where these fora moderated by Estelyn are - are they sub-forums here or full fora elsewhere?

As Child said, it is indeed great to see such enthusiasm, especially in so short a time. However, there is the question of maintaining this enthusiasm. I have a proposal to put forward.

To keep enthusiasm going, and also to make learning Quenya more of a group activity on the Downs, I propose some friendly competitions. Quenya is used in RL primarily to write short stories or poetry. I suggest a bi-monthly or quarterly poetry competition with interested parties contributing in their "Buddy pairs." This is reasonably frequent, but also leaves plenty of time to actually learn more Quenya inbetween.

The judge(s) would have to be impartial. It would really just be a bit of fun and competition to keep everybody interested. Please PM me with opinions on this idea (particularly if you have already posted).

Lastly - when a Quenya pair is formed, please go back and delete your "stats posts" as they will no longer be needed. This means the only stats posts remaining will be those belonging to people still searching for buddies, making it easier to sift through them. PM me and I'll edit the first post, adding in the Quenya Buddy pairs.

TGWBS

[the guy who be short]

While I do want to post here minimally so that people can browse through looking for Buddies, let's sort out the Competitions. I sacrificied my sleep thinking about it.

Frequency:

Once every two months. Each one shall begin on the first day of an odd month; the first will begin on the 1st of September.

Entries:

I've realised it's a little silly telling people to contribute in Buddy pairs - poems are meant to be individual. So, each person should post their own poem(s), though feel free to get your Buddy to help you out, proof-read, edit, etc.
Entrees should be received on the first 10 days of the competition, with English translations underneath. There should be a maximum of two poems per person (though perhaps we could increase that to start off with if there aren't many of us).

Discussion:

After the initial ten-day phase is over, the Judge should announce a period of discuss. This is where we basically say "Ooh, I like your poem!" and voice our opinions, consider the feelings behind the poems and look at the techniques used. In short, flatter one another.

Winner:

The winner is chosen by the Judge. Yay! End of competition. Remember it's not about the winning - the main thing here is to discuss the poems. But congrats if you do win, anyway.

Judge:

The Judge should be allowed to enter work which can be debated, but cannot choose their own poem to win. The Judge rotates - the Winner of the last competition is given the title of Judge for the next one. I'll probably be the first Judge, unless a Mod wants the job.

Differences in Skill:

We'll be working at different paces, so there will obviously be differences in skill. To be honest, to start off with most of our poems will follow a pattern similar to this:

The birds are singing
The sun is shining
Oh, happiness
I am happy.

So don't feel embarassed to contribute. Eventually, though, the differences in pace will be marked, and people who have studies more lessons will be more likely to win. There could be a split into two levels of competition when this stage is reached.


Please feel completely free to PM me about anything above. Any ideas or opinions are welcome.

[Arwen Imladris]

Occupation: Student (University)

Location: Canada (Ontario)

Pace: Fairly slow. No more than an hour or two a week I would think. Although I could be persuaded to do more or less.

Prior Knowledge: Just a few phrases and such. A few words.

Medium: PMs or Email.