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Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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Hobbits & Oath-Taking
In this chapter we have the third (or fourth, if we count Smeagol's) oath of service sworn by a Hobbit. Sam's is, as I pointed out in an earlier thread, the most subtle & the most easily missed: Quote:
Next, we have Frodo's oath: Quote:
So, Frodo's oath is more simple, because more specific, but more 'binding' because of that. Sam doesn't know what his oath binds him to do, what it will require of him, Frodo knows exactly what his oath requires of him. As Elrond says to Gimli, sworn word make break the heart. Next we have Smeaqgol's 'oath' sworn out a mixture of desire & fear. It is, os all the oaths, the one sworn least willingly, & the one sworn out of selfishness. It should never have been sworn, & much of the suffering that results from it comes as a direct result of this. Quote:
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Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wandering through Middle-Earth (Sadly in Alberta and not ME)
Posts: 612
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You can see that Pippin hasn't fully matured yet because if he had he might have thought twice before he offered his services to Denethor. He still lets his emotions guide him, but thet don't overtake him as much as they used to before.
He is also losing some of that innocence that he had back in book 1 or just some of his ignorance which led to curiosity and drove him to do silly things like throwing the rock down the well in Moria.
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#3 | ||||||
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Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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Denethor seems to see the loss of Boromir as a personal assault on him. Theoden as a result can grieve his loss & move on, Denethor is broken by it, because he sees it as fate being out to get him - everyone is against him, out to destroy him. He is embattled, cut off, waiting for the inevitable end - why bother fighting? He does continue organising the defence of Gondor, but soon he will decide there is no point in that. When we first meet them Theoden seems a worse case than Denethor. The Steward seems more in control of himself, more powerful, more aware & defiant. In actual fact he only seems stronger. The reality is that he is brittle & ready to shatter. What he lacks is Theoden’s inner strength, which is only sleeping. His words to Gandalf later seem to show his wisdom in conflict with his pride: Quote:
Another thing that struck me was his statement Quote:
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The chapter ends with the (as I think Tolkien called it) ‘Homeric procession’ of forces from outlying parts of the Realm. Their appearance is greeted with joy, yet their passing into the city perhaps deepens the inhabitants’ sense of despair. They hoped for thousands & got hundreds. They need Rohan. The great Darkness sweeps over them in the night, & all the lights in the city have been dimmed. Even Gandalf states ‘There will be no dawn.’ On a first reading we feel their despair, on subsequent readings we know it is mistaken, & that a dawn will come, with the crowing of a cock, the departure of the Lord of the Nazgul - never to return - & the horns of Rohan. Another eucatasptrophe. It is always darkest before the dawn - even when we know the dawn is inevitable. This chapter, as much as it is about Pippin, is about Denethor. We may see the events through Pippin’s eyes, but on another level we see things from Denethor’s perspective: we adopt, without realising it, Denethor’s point of view. Its as if he truly is Gondor. His spirit has settled on the city & on us. Yet the words of Beregond also echo through this chapter: Quote:
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#4 | ||
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Relic of Wandering Days
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: You'll See Perpetual Change.
Posts: 1,480
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The idea that Denethor has begun seeing himself as Gondor by this point rings very true and explains some of the Steward’s more mystifying behavior very well. But as for his seeming inconsistency of thought regarding lordship and dignity of his northern kindred, I would hazard to say that he probably thought them less worthy since Arvedui's time, when they had lost all the northern kingdoms. Though I doubt Denethor would have accepted Arvedui himself as king of Gondor viewing the traditional line held by Gondor regarding them.
To be a bit charitable to him on how he was spending his time, it is possible that Denethor only found time to meditate deeply on the broken horn while waiting for Gandalf and Pippin to arrive. And it appears that he was sharp at this point, not off in the deep end at all, even in Gandalf's eyes. So this 'prop' might have been chosen for it's effect in supporting the steward's show of real grief. Quote:
Also surprising was Pippin's notice of the joy under Gandalf's sorrow. It seems a very Christian concept. Ah yes, can't forget to mention this little quote, seeing where we are discussing this! Quote:
Last edited by Hilde Bracegirdle; 06-09-2005 at 03:43 AM. Reason: To fix the mess I had made of it and fill out some thoughts. |
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Illusionary Holbytla
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,547
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